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Author Topic: Ray's response to a "long-time" critizing reader  (Read 3754 times)

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Craig

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Ray's response to a "long-time" critizing reader
« on: June 19, 2010, 08:32:39 AM »

Ray,

I read your comments to XXXX posted in the “Emails To Ray” section in the BT forum on 4/19/2010.

You have some latitude because of what you’re going through physically, and you’re not going to care a whit about what I write, but I’m going to write it just the same.

From the day I found your website, an abiding respect for you has grown in me over the years, but your communications are becoming increasingly unbearable.  What you’ve written to date will sustain us all for a lifetime, but I can’t continue to watch you hack people to pieces with your angry, arrogant, cutting remarks.

You completely misread what this person was trying to express.

You have the knowledge - you’ve spent your time on your knees - but without love…

1 Corinthians 13--Love

 1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

 4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Yes, it says “rejoices with the truth”, but does that mean the rest is optional?

Your mood is understandable, considering your 2 year long battle with prostate cancer and everything that comes with it, but your belligerence and lack of tolerance for simple people, who simply want to learn is unconscionable.  When I read what you write, your contempt is obvious and increasingly painful.

You’ve taught me how to understand The Scriptures, and I thank God for that and can continue to learn without you, but if you can’t be the least bit loving toward  human beings who dare to ask questions, I can’t muster the smallest speck of respect for your affliction.  There are children in cancer wards across the U.S. that are kind and loving, in spite of their suffering.

Maybe it’s time to ask yourself this question:  “How did Paul handle his thorn?”

Jeff


Dear Jeff:

Thank you for your email.  I'll keep this short as I have two thousand eight hundred and seven unanswered
emails ahead of yours.

I don't go to our Forum.  I don't have the time.  What would be more helpful to me, however, would be if you would be specific in your criticism.  I'm not sure who the person is of whom you speak when you say that I "...completely misread what this person was trying to express."  What WERE they trying to say?

What was it "specifically" (don't paraphrase or generalize, but rather "QUOTE" me) that I said that was "hacking" someone to pieces;  that I was "angry" with;  and used "arrogant, cutting" remarks?  Let me know, and I will try to answer you back.

God be with you,

Ray


Ray,

I intended to do what you asked – be helpful and point out the things I was referring to – but I don’t think I’m supposed to do that.  It’s not that I don’t want to, or can’t, but my limited understanding is that it’s not something that would make a difference.

You taught me that I can’t see anything, no matter how obvious, unless God opens my eyes to it.  This isn’t something I can show you.

They’re your words and if your heart isn’t pierced when you write them, nothing I can say or do is going to make it plain

This has nothing to do with me or even the people you reply to - it’s about your heart and that’s all I know.  My job was to write to you.

I gave you the date the email was placed on the forum – 4/19/2010 - and there’s only one email on that day so Craig can easily send it to you.  The subject title is “Banned”.

Do what you do best and you’ll have the answer.  If you don’t find it, then I’m just a crackpot and can be dismissed, or maybe you can just dismiss the whole thing right now, that’s not something I know.  I have no investment in this other than obedience and brotherly love.

Jeff
 

Jeff:  How DID I know that that would be your non-answer?

So it IS your job to hurl all kinds of character flaws at me, but it is not your job to be specific.  I can SCRIPTURALLY back every word and every thought and ever intent of heart that I used in answering that email.  Want to try again?  I get the feeling, Jeff, that if you were present at some of the discussions Jesus had with the religious leaders (as I recall the person in question in my reply [Michael] was a "pastor") during His ministry, you would have been one of the first to be highly offended at his choice of words, tone of voice, etc.

I will give you a few examples from the Scriptures on how to deal with those who "despise" the Word of God, and who contradict sound doctrine (Titus 1:9), which is part
of my statement of purpose for bible-truths.com found on my home page.  Here is how Jesus spoke to the loved and respected religious leaders of His day:

"You Fools! You Hypocrites! You Snakes!"

[Meet the Real Jesus Many Hate]

The title of this paper is taken from the very words of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, spoken to the Scribes and Pharisees in Jerusalem. Let’s take a Scriptural look at a side of Jesus that most Christians will not believe, even when they see Him in their own Bibles.

Who were the Scribes and Pharisees?

The Pharisees were not the priests, but rather people from all walks of life who were very pious and strict keepers of the Law of Moses. They constantly adjusted the Law to fit the changing world according to their traditions and own desires. Among the more educated of the Pharisees were the Scrible and the rulers of the Jews:

    "In the modern sense they [the Scribes] were the religious scholars or theologians … sometimes called lawyers … or teachers of the law …could make judicial decisions based on Scriptural exegesis, occupied important positions in the Sanhedrin … played a major role in bringing on the crucifixion of Jesus" and they "mainly belonged to the party of the Pharisees" (WYCLIFFE Bible Dictionary, p. 1536).

Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees "fools, hypocrites, blind guides, whited sepulchers, murderers, a generation of snakes," and many such epithets. Jesus called them "hypocrites" seven times in one chapter. He spoke with scathing derision to the Scribes and Pharisees throughout His ministry; very few of them received a kind word from Him.

And yet countless Christians write and tell me that Jesus never spoke like this or ever said a cruel or angry word in His life. Therefore when I sometimes write with an edge on my voice I am accused of not following the example of Jesus. Oh but Jesus surely did speak harshly, demeaningly, and with great anger in His voice to the Scribes and Pharisees—the religious Leaders of God’s Church. Jesus was not mild and soft-spoken when it came to the sins and hypocrisy of these church leaders. Too many Christians have read the teachings of Jesus with rose-colored glasses covering both their eyes and their minds.

When the Pharisees asked Jesus, "Why do your disciples…?" Jesus didn’t softly answer their question, rather He retorted back with, "Why do YOU…?" Jesus was never on the defensive, but always on the offensive. Using the vernacular, He was "IN THEIR FACE!"

Do any believe Jesus was referencing farm animals when He said not to cast pearls or give what is holy to "the DOGS and PIGS?"

Jesus referred to the recalcitrant Jewish leaders as, "an EVIL and ADULTEROUS generation," "SERPENTS and SNAKES," and "children of the DEVIL." Why He even told the Scribes and Pharisees regarding the royal and mighty King Herod: "Go ye, and tell that FOX [that JACKAL]…"

JESUS UPBRAIDS THE CHURCH LEADERS

There are many examples of Jesus upbraiding the Church leaders for their gross sins [selections from Matthew 23]:

    "But WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES… FOR YOU SHUT UP THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN AGAINST MEN…

    …THEY BIND HEAVY BURDENS and GRIEVOUS to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but will not move them with ONE OF THEIR FINGERS

    WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES… you DEVOUR WIDOW’S HOUSES… you shall receive the greater damnation.

    WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES…

    WOE unto you, ye BLIND GUIDES…

    You FOOLS AND BLIND…

    You FOOLS AND BLIND…

    WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! You… have omitted… JUDGMENT, MERCY, and FAITH…

    You BLIND GUIDES, which strain out a gnat, and SWALLOW A CAMEL.

    WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES… within they are full of EXTORTION AND EXCESS.

    You BLIND PHARISEES…

    WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! You are FULL OF DEAD MEN’S BONES, and ALL UNCLEANESS… and HYPOCRISY and INIQUITY…

    WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES!… you are the children of them which KILLED the prophets. FILL YOU UP then the measure of your fathers.

    You SERPENTS, you GENERATION OF SNAKES… you KILL AND CRUCIFY… you SCOURGE in your synagogues… Behold your house is left unto you DESOLATE"!!

WOW! Every one of these comments from Matt. 23 were spoken directly to the "Religious Scholars and Theologians" in the Church of God centered at the Temple in Jerusalem. Would Jesus speak in the same manner to the Religious Scholars and Theologians in God’s Church today? Does Jesus "change"? NO. Has the Church changed in the past 2000 years? YES. It has gotten WORSE.

Virtually every Christian clergyman that I have sent this example to who has had similar comments to yours, has replied by saying:  "Yes, that's JESUS, but you, Ray, ARE NOT JESUS."

 Oh really?  But I thought that we are SUPPOSED to be like Jesus and follow Jesus, and even Paul said to follow him as he follows Jesus?  Actually, I am rather tame when it comes to calling out those clergymen who refuse to believe the Scriptures, and teach unbelievably evil and damnable doctrines warned of by apostles like Peter (II Pet. 2:1). If you noticed, Jeff, I did not call this man a "murderer," or a "whitened septic tank," or a "snake."  I must admit I do sometimes call them "hypocrates," as I believe Jesus did a half dozens times or so in just one chapter.

Stop being a coward and be willing to stand up to the accusing statements you so easily engage in.
 
God be with you,

Ray


PS   Be sure to read my upcoming paper:  "HELL Is A Christian Hoax," in which I expose the Muslim/Christian doctrine of eternal torture in fire.  I also cover fifty lying contradictions from Bill Wiese's book: "23 Minutes in Hell."  It's over a hundred pages long.  Be sure to read it.  If you have any desire for the truth, it will knock your socks off.
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Craig

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Re: Ray's response to a "long-time" critizing reader
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2010, 08:41:04 AM »

Craig:
I wouldn't waste my time on this stuff, but we are getting
more and more people who are being offended (at themselves,
if you ask me), but try to justify their problems in life by finding
fault with me or my writings. I think these things are helpful to our Forum.

Ray



Ray,

You knew my answer, just as I knew what your response would be, but I don’t think you’re understanding where this is coming from.

I’ve read everything you’ve written and listened to every audio tape available, many times over in the past 6 years, and as much as is possible, I know you.  On the other hand, you know nothing about me.

A part of you is in everything you write.  I know your “personality”.  I know about all of the emails you get chastising you for your brusque approach to teaching.  Your response is always “I speak as Jesus spoke.”

How about the Apostle Paul – did he speak the way you speak?  Paul appears to have been a gentle man.  Do you have to be a gentle man?  No, of course not -  you are who God made you to be.  Does that mean you don’t have character flaws, just like every other soul God has created?  No, it certainly doesn’t mean that.

Something you don’t know about me - I will always stand up for someone who’s been mistreated, whether it’s by you or some mother in the parking lot yelling at her kid.

You suggest that I’m questioning your information and that’s not the case at all.  I have no doubt in my mind that everything you say is completely Scripturally accurate.  Why did you even go there?  It has nothing to do with what I said.

Ray – you have the knowledge – you’ve been places few people in history have been – but you don’t have the heart.

What you’re not seeing is that you don’t have the heart of Christ.  You understand the most profound and astonishing things that virtually no one else on the planet understands - but through your writings and God’s leading - I do also understand.  I would NEVER-EVER question your knowledge.  Because of the things you’ve written, I no longer have the need for faith.  I KNOW – because through you, God showed me the truth.

You HAVE the MIND of Christ, but you don’t have his HEART – you lack humility.  Why did God give Paul a thorn?  To keep him humble.

That’s what this is about – nothing else.

I did my part.  If you disagree, then go in peace brother, as do I.

Jeff


Dear Jeff:  I get the impression that you are one who thinks that "He who speaks last, wins the argument."  You suggest that I don't understand YOU, but you have the spiritual ability to read MY HEART?  Oh really?  Just maybe I know you better than you do.

Where have I said that you "question my information?"  You state that I have the "MIND of Chirst."  I appreciate that, but then you said the following:

That I  "...don't have "His HEART,' and that I lack HUMILITY. You accuse me of being "brusque-- "DISCOURTEOUSLY BLUNT." That I "HACK people to pieces" with my "ANGRY, ARROGANT, CUTTING remarks" That I am "WITHOUT LOVE" You say that my "BELLIGERENT and LACK of TOLERANCE is UNCONSCIONABLE" You state that my "CONTEMPT is obvious and increasingly PAINFUL" That I "can't be the LEAST BIT LOVING toward human beings who dare to ask questions" Etc. etc.

And yet....;.AND YET, you say that I have "the MIND of Christ."  Unbelievable!

Having the "mind" of Christ is rather important.  We are told to "Let this MIND be in YOU, which was also in Christ Jesus" (Phil. 2:5).

Ten times in the N.T. we are told to have this same "ONE mind," or this "SAME MIND," as Christ. However, only one time in the N.T. was anyone admonished to be of "one" or the "same" heart.

And if you will check Strong's Greek Dictionary, you will find that one of the major definitions of "heart" is "MIND."

I could be wrong, Jeff, but I perceive that it is YOU who are angry, cutting, lackig humility, blunt, and in spite of your accolades, you have a certain "contempt" for me.  You are obviously not happy.  You are not content with life--I am.  I desire no one to feel sorry, or pity me in my condition.  I do, however, deeply appreciate and love all those who care about me and support me in many ways.  You state that I am rude and crude towards "simple" people. That's not true. 

You say that Jesus spoke harshly to "teachers" only. That's not true either.  And what, pray tell, is your point in avoiding everything I showed you with regard to how Jesus handled lying, two-faced religious hypocrates, and then suggest that PAUL wouldn't speak like that?  Are you really suggesting that Paul had better control of his tongue and emotions that his Lord Jesus did?  Give me a break.

But since you brought up Paul, let's take a quick look at his speech and demeanor:
"...lest being present I should USE SHARPNESS according to the power which the Lord has given me..." (II Cor. 13:10).

"One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, 'The Creatians are ALWAYS LIARS, EVIL BEASTS, SLOW BELLIES.'  THIS WITNESS IS TRUE." (Titus 1:13).

Many have admonished and condemned me for using people's names in my papers.  Surely Jesus wouldn't do that, would He? "Get thee out, and depart hence, for Herod [the KING] will kill you. And He [Jesus] said unto them, 'Go ye, and tell that FOX [Gk: JACKEL]...." (Luke 13:31-32).

And surely Paul wouldn't name names, would he? "ALEXANDER the coppersmith DID ME MUCH EVIL: the Lord reward him according to his works" (II Tim. 4:14). "And their word will EAT AS DOTH A CANKER: of whom is HYMENAEUS and PHILETUS" (II Tim. 2:17). O whom is HYMENAEUS and ALEXANDER; whom I have DELIVERED UNTO SATAN, that they may learn not to BLASPHEME" (I Tim. 1:20). Etc.

And even the apostle John:  "I wrote unto the church: but DIOTERPHES,

who loves to have the preeminence among them, receives us not.  Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he does PRATING [Gk: 'talking nonsense] against us with MALICIOUS WORDS:  and not content therewith, neither does he himself CASTS THEM OUT OF THE CHURCH" (III John 9-10).

Paul was accused of having "RUDE" (II Cor. 11:6).  They accused Paul of having "CONTEMPTIBLE SPEECH" (II Cor. 10:10).  Paul called the Corinthians "CARNAL" (I Cor. 3:1-3), and "FOOLISH" (II Cor. 15:36). Etc.

Well, enough of this.  I don't have to justify myself to you.  You have nothing tangible against my writings except it be a plethora of typos.  Trying to salve your own short-comings will not be aided by trying to find fault in my heart.

You assuredly do not know my heart, Jeff.  You say you could point out my rude and abominable speech, but you don't want to.  Yet you have no problem in stating that I am "contemptible, beligerant, intolerable, and lacking love" to name a few (and yet you say that I have the MIND of Christ).  Do you know a contradiction when you see one?  Give it up, Jeff.  This won't make you happy.

God be with you,

Ray
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