Hello to you Arc and thank you for the welcome
It’s a pleasure Doug.
Just briefly, here are a few thoughts inspired from your comments and questions. Further references can be found in much greater depth and detail in Rays teachings.
Was Adam created mortal
He was.
or did he become mortal through sin?
That would mean that immortality became mortality. Are we not supposed to go from mortal to immortal, carnal to spiritual? It is the order of God to go from natural to spiritual and not as Christendom falsely teaches that Adam was made in the Image of God that sinned. That is a contradiction. God does not sin. The image of God does as God does and that is, that God does not sin.
Did Adam have lust
The spiritual condition of Adam was that he was created with a weak heart, a carnal mind in bondage to vanity that for me is, prone to lust. Like a recipe for disaster relatively speaking or a formula for success according to the Plan of God.
Did Adam have lust before he had Eve who came from his flesh and became what Adam first lusted after?
I do not know if Eve was the first thing that Adam lusted after. The Scriptures do not tell me that. What I do know is that Adam desired a mate long, long before God presented Eve to him. Was that desire, lust? What is lust? Jesus desired that the cup pass from Him. Was that lust to save His own flesh? I know, believe and seen expounded through Rays teachings, that God did not let Jesus sin. It was God who caused Jesus not to sin. It was God who made Jesus be pleasing in His Sight who was caused to yield to the Will of His Father and confess, THY WILL BE DONE! Adam was not Jesus Christ. Adam was carnal flesh and to use a expression Ray expounds, he was a “sinning machine.” I believe that. By contrast to the first adam, Jesus Christ is the Last Adam and Jesus Christ was NOT a sinning machine. I believe that too!
Sin could not be concieved in Jesus Christ though He was tempted in every way. Sin had no dominion over Jesus Christ.
After all he must of seen the separation that would have happened between God and Eve from her disobeying God yet he chose not to loose having her by his side by following her into separation through disobedience to God.
I think it is one thing to see a consequence and quite another to live it. Jesus knew He came to die. Going through it required the encouragement of the Father and the influence making Jesus victorious. He could do nothing without The Father.
That is covered in what Ray expounds through the teachings here. Yes. So, as you state, Adam lusted before and after and because of Eve, the condition of Adams weak heart and carnal ways were made manifest for our admonition.
God told Adam that if he ate from the tree of knowledge he would die that day...... and he did.
I suggest that he spiritually died that caused his boot from the garden and the tree of life. Then he went on to produce evil fruit in Cain as well as good fruit in Abel that was a direct result of eating the seeds of evil and good knowledge ......... He also failed to live out the day physically (a day is as a thousand years) as he did not live out the the thousand years of a biblical day.
What could of possibly been the sin that David was concieved in when he could not have yet sinned himself as he was still in his mothers womb?
This is my point. I think it more accurate to say we are born mortal. David was born mortal. We are all born mortal.
The sin I am speaking of Arc is a noun
Is it a noun or a condition. I think it is a condition of being born mortal, carnal, weak, and as you say, in the state of imperfection and corruption that has to be put off, as in putting off the old man. You say, adam and eve “in us” which can be misunderstood. Adam and eve are not “in us” BUT we do have to overcome all conditions, all lives in all the OT in order to overcome our own carnality.
As Ray says:
If you cannot identify yourself, personally, with all the stories and accounts in the Old Testament, then you have not even begun to overcome all the carnality that you are. Ref TWELVE GOD-GIVEN TRUTHS TO UNDERSTAND HIS WORD. Truth no 8
that makes the spirit and soul of man (the adam and eve in us) unclean versus the Holy Spirit of God and the Soul of God (the mind of Christ) that are clean and able to ascend unto heaven where they come from. That IMO is unlike the spirit and soul in us that we were born with that are from the earth and are mortal and destined for death......... good thing as Paul says that without death there is no resurrection.
So yes I do agree with you......... the soul we are born with is most defiantly mortal........ LOL good thing, other wise we would be stuck with it.
We don’t want to be stuck with it! It has to change!
To me that is what I see as the meaning behind when Jesus said "let the dead bury their dead" because we (Christians baptized in the Holy Spirit) have been given the Holy Spirit to live by and are to let the spirit of man in us who was 'born unto death" go ahead and die and take the soul of man with it to the grave making room for the mind of Christ who has no sin, to be our thoughts and emotions that controls the actions of our bodies.
For the mind of Christ who has not sin, to be our thoughts…is a contradiction in terms. There can be no I…but Christ in us…We are to reckon ourselves dead until such time as we ascend to the resurrection to life or judgment. In this life we are in judgment on the House of God now, or not, depending where God has us.
I need to scoot but regardless of whether or not we agree on this point....... I stopped letting "points" become to big of a thing for fellowship to endure some time ago........ and this is your house so to speak.
That is a huge compliment that I have to allocate to all the membership here especially those who are our mentors, brothers and sisters in Christ who help, inspire, direct, assist and bless us all here. So this house is yours too Doug under which we are all housed by our God.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.Like wise to you
Arc