The Great White Throne of Judgment--so what's NEW?

[Duane]

I woke up thinking about the Great White Throne of Judgment--then, as if inspired, all these thoughts just came rushing to mind, so I rushed to the computer to share them with you!  And, in doing so , I certainly INVITE any corrections or mis-guided understandings from you who are "more grounded in the Word". 

This, I am sure, came about after a long discussion with my sister-who TOTALLY thought "I lost it, after sharing what i had learned in the hundreds of hours i have spent pouring over Ray's writings (and believing them)!  I also was brought up in a pastor's home, the product of Moody Bible Institute, and and an education out of Baptist Bible Seminary and   Bob Jones University(ahalf)year before having to serve in the Navy during the Viet Nam War.  So I am 64 and had a LIFE-TIME of traditional learning, as had my sister.  So with THAT introduction, you will understand how I "blew my sister's mind" and she will "be praying for me"!

So we stand before a omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, AWESOME God to "give an account" of our life on earth.  However, our "steps where ordered by the Lord, before the foundation of the world" and we were formed and created with our abilities and talents
in our mother's womb" to be the person God created us to be--minus FREE WILL.

So how will we/should we feel when standing before an ALMIGHTY, PERFECT God?  Thankful-for our salvation thru Jesus's death on the cross, Justified and Redeemed!  However, what is the purpose of our predetemined life, with all it's ups and downs, being reviewed indetail--after the fact?  All was ordered by the Lord before we were BORN because God is SOVEREIGN and we acted out His will for life?

[Dennis Vogel]

However, what is the purpose of our predetemined life, with all it's ups and downs, being reviewed indetail--after the fact?  All was ordered by the Lord before we were BORN because God is SOVEREIGN and we acted out His will for life?

I suspect we will thank God more for the down's than the up's. Some things have to be experienced rather than taught.

[Akira329]

So how will we/should we feel when standing before an ALMIGHTY, PERFECT God?  Thankful-for our salvation thru Jesus's death on the cross, Justified and Redeemed!  However, what is the purpose of our predetemined life, with all it's ups and downs, being reviewed indetail--after the fact?  All was ordered by the Lord before we were BORN because God is SOVEREIGN and we acted out His will for life?

Heb 4:16  Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Heb 10:19  Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

1Jn 4:17  Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Rev 14:5  And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Jud 1:24  Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, .....

Hope these direct you!
Antaiwan

[aqrinc]

Hi Duane,

Thank God that He would make puny humans into beings just Like Himself; what would we not thank him for . We are going through a process from dirt to god , what was the question again .

george :o.

[Dave in Tenn]

Hi Duane.  It's a beautiful question.  I suspect you are going through much the same thing I am as we experience judgement today.  Isn't all your stupid life, past and present, making sense and having purpose you never even imagined before truly being able to say "Jesus is Lord"?  I think that's a foretaste of what judgement after resurrection will be like.   

[Kat]

Hi Duane,

our "steps where ordered by the Lord...

what is the purpose of our predetemined life, with all it's ups and downs, being reviewed indetail--after the fact?  All was ordered by the Lord before we were BORN because God is SOVEREIGN and we acted out His will for life?

We live our life, that is the only way that we develop into individual persons with the character and personality that we all have, through experiences bad and good. We all must go through the bad as well as the good, as Ray has stated "Character and Love cannot be created instantly; it can only be developed over a period of time under severe pressure and duress."  But we all will have to give account for all the actions that we do, we are the one (even though God is the ultimate cause, ordered our steps) that actually do the things that we do. So we have to answer for the things that we have done and "the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God" (1Pe 4:17). That is now for the Elect, we are giving account.

So a chosen person that has been corrected and prepared through their life, by the time they rise up to meet the Lord in the air at the resurrection, will have nothing but praise and adoration for their Savior. They will  know that God's plan is perfect and understand that this life was as it needed to be. It takes the Holy Spirit to bring about the understanding for us to accept that everything that is happening in this world will ultimately be for the good, for those that have been given eyes to see.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Patrick]

Along the lines of what Dave and Kat have written; if one is being judged in fire now, I think their "predetermined life, with all it's ups and downs", is being reviewed in detail, now!
None of us will escape judgement (setting things right/life being reviewed in detail); it's either now or later.

"If God is calling you to be one of His chosen Elect, then what you call "life" IS THAT JUDGMENT.  We are not solely judged for what we do WRONG, but we are judged by being made to live in a world of persecution for doing RIGHT."
L. Ray Smith

[Joel]

God loves balanced scales, the Captain of our salvation was made perfect through sufferings.
Joel

[aqrinc]

Hi Duane,

Ecc 1:13 (CLV)
I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

This is a long and from our perspective hard painstaking process, to be made into god like beings, but Needed. Because in the end, when we have learned Humility and have been given all the other traits we need to have,

God will then say to each person:
'Well done, you good and faithful servant!' said his master. 'You have been faithful in managing small amounts, so I will put you in charge of large amounts. Come on in and share my happiness!'

Mat 25: 14-30 (GNB)
14  "At that time the Kingdom of heaven will be like this. Once there was a man who was about to leave home on a trip; he called his servants and put them in charge of his property.
15  He gave to each one according to his ability: to one he gave five thousand gold coins, to another he gave two thousand, and to another he gave one thousand. Then he left on his trip.

16  The servant who had received five thousand coins went at once and invested his money and earned another five thousand.
17  In the same way the servant who had received two thousand coins earned another two thousand.
18  But the servant who had received one thousand coins went off, dug a hole in the ground, and hid his master's money.

19  "After a long time the master of those servants came back and settled accounts with them.
20  The servant who had received five thousand coins came in and handed over the other five thousand. 'You gave me five thousand coins, sir,' he said. 'Look! Here are another five thousand that I have earned.'
21  'Well done, you good and faithful servant!' said his master. 'You have been faithful in managing small amounts, so I will put you in charge of large amounts. Come on in and share my happiness!'

22  Then the servant who had been given two thousand coins came in and said, 'You gave me two thousand coins, sir. Look! Here are another two thousand that I have earned.'
23  'Well done, you good and faithful servant!' said his master. 'You have been faithful in managing small amounts, so I will put you in charge of large amounts. Come on in and share my happiness!'

24  Then the servant who had received one thousand coins came in and said, 'Sir, I know you are a hard man; you reap harvests where you did not plant, and you gather crops where you did not scatter seed.
25  I was afraid, so I went off and hid your money in the ground. Look! Here is what belongs to you.'

26  'You bad and lazy servant!' his master said. 'You knew, did you, that I reap harvests where I did not plant, and gather crops where I did not scatter seed?
27  Well, then, you should have deposited my money in the bank, and I would have received it all back with interest when I returned.
28  Now, take the money away from him and give it to the one who has ten thousand coins.
29  For to every person who has something, even more will be given, and he will have more than enough; but the person who has nothing, even the little that he has will be taken away from him.
30  As for this useless servant---throw him outside in the darkness; there he will cry and gnash his teeth.' (For a time)

george .

[mmijares]

I usually force my will to my son to study everyday and even harder if there is an exam on the following day.  He doesn't like it.  He likes to play instead.  But my will is stronger than his.  And I always see to it that he does what I want him to do.  After the exam, when he gets home, he thanks me for "helping" him in his study because his teacher applauds him for getting a high score.

Isn't that great?  We have A far GREATER DAD Whose WILL is way way stronger than ours and will see to it that we do want He wants us to do in order to achieve His plan on us.  I don't about you, but when I get my "high score", I shall sure thank God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ and will forever feel blessed because if not for His guiding Hands perhaps I shall be nowhere to be found.

[Duane]

THANK YOU ALL for your well thought out answers to my question.  It ALL makes sense to me NOW! 
What DOESN'T make sense, is when I try to show someone who "loves the Lord", the truths gathered from the readings in "the forum"
(-ESPECIALLYthe critiques of Dr.'s Hagee/Kennedy) and they refuse to even read the SCRIPTURES that pertain to the subject (!) but RATHER warn me AGAINST further reading (the BIBLE) lest I be "drawn farther away"!!

(I guess I CAN'T hold myself responsible for WHO G-O-D chooses to be HIS elect?  It is GOD that does the CHOOSING--not my feeble, but well intended efforts that make the difference in people's acceptance of the truth.)

ANYONE care to add to that or do I grasp it??

[Samson]

THANK YOU ALL for your well thought out answers to my question.  It ALL makes sense to me NOW! 
What DOESN'T make sense, is when I try to show someone who "loves the Lord", the truths gathered from the readings in "the forum"
(-ESPECIALLYthe critiques of Dr.'s Hagee/Kennedy) and they refuse to even read the SCRIPTURES that pertain to the subject (!) but RATHER warn me AGAINST further reading (the BIBLE) lest I be "drawn farther away"!!

(I guess I CAN'T hold myself responsible for WHO G-O-D chooses to be HIS elect?  It is GOD that does the CHOOSING--not my feeble, but well intended efforts that make the difference in people's acceptance of the truth.)

ANYONE care to add to that or do I grasp it??

Hi Duane,

             I don't think my following comment will fully answer your question, but maybe give you a hint in the right direction. I was listening to Ray's Audio about Free Will, it was either the last minutes of part one or the beginning of part two, he mentions regarding notorious evil Men through history eventually being saved and " Christians " get angry because they feel their better than those Evil people and they think highly of themselves and they don't like the idea of anyone eventually receiving the same reward as them, because they are so much better in their degree of morality. Also, they despise the word of God and they don't like it when Scriptural information threatens their Pet Doctrines that they believed for so long. Also, God hasn't as yet caused them to comprehend these Truths. Only a small fraction(God's Chosen Elect) are meant to understand these Truths since the First Century began to our present day. Accept the fact that the majority interpretation of Scriptural understanding was, is and never the right one. Read the Article: Meet the Jesus people really hate from the front page by Ray. I re-read it at work Saturday, the individuals who have the Truth are always in the minority. Jesus spoke of "My Church" and "The Church" in that article and mentions that those 7 churches in Revelation represent all the churches of Christendom with their accompanying faults.

                                                   Kind Regards, Samson.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Duane

My comments arise from the insights provided in the teaching WHAT IS THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM, and have bearing on how I have understood this teaching plus all other lessons expounded that bring to our understanding the ways and purposes of our Loving and Just God.

So how will we/should we feel when standing before an ALMIGHTY, PERFECT God? 

Remember the Word of God is Spirit. The Word of God is not literal. How do we stand in front of Spirit that is everywhere? Which way do we face Spirit that is everywhere?

We either feel like we are being burned or we feel quite at home in God who is a consuming fire. Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, walked around in the fire, which is written for our edification. Those outside the furnace, when they got close, were burnt alive yet we know those who are unGodly, their works, ways, thoughts, preferences, attitudes, attachments to deceptions, leanings towards control and manipulations, will be burnt, yet they will escape, as by fire.

Thankful-for our salvation thru Jesus's death on the cross, Justified and Redeemed! 

No one escapes judgment. Many are called, few are chosen and God doesn't change. Those few who are thankful for salvation are more especially grateful for judgment that chastises and prepares for the High Calling in Christ that is the first resurrection.

However, what is the purpose of our predetemined life, with all it's ups and downs, being reviewed indetail--after the fact? 

Just as God is a stickler for details, every hair on our heads is numbered, so too will every thing sown reap the consequences and God will be there to make sure that when every penny is paid, we will be redeemed not by money but as by fire, purged, purified and perfected. Nothing wicked, no thought, no intention, no envy, no idol will remain to tarnish or mare the perfect Image of the Son of God Jesus Christ.

All was ordered by the Lord before we were BORN because God is SOVEREIGN and we acted out His will for life?

That has got to teach us something by experience that God authors for us. Thank God! As Samson says, the lessons in thge Myth of Free Will teachings are really important.

Arc

[Patrick]

THANK YOU ALL for your well thought out answers to my question.  It ALL makes sense to me NOW! 
What DOESN'T make sense, is when I try to show someone who "loves the Lord", the truths gathered from the readings in "the forum"
(-ESPECIALLYthe critiques of Dr.'s Hagee/Kennedy) and they refuse to even read the SCRIPTURES that pertain to the subject (!) but RATHER warn me AGAINST further reading (the BIBLE) lest I be "drawn farther away"!!

Deep down, "they" despise the Word. Trust me, they'll never in a million years admit it, unless/until God opens their eyes & ears. Even then, most will fight it (realizing that you do/did in fact despise the Word of God), I did!
Many of us have run out and tried to tell our family/friends the Truth, only to be rejected by the majority.

(I guess I CAN'T hold myself responsible for WHO G-O-D chooses to be HIS elect?  It is GOD that does the CHOOSING--not my feeble, but well intended efforts that make the difference in people's acceptance of the truth.)

ANYONE care to add to that or do I grasp it??

No, you cannot hold yourself responsible, God does the calling and the choosing; and be very carefull with your "well intended" efforts. God may use you as an instrument, for that you will be held accountable!
Here is a link to an older forum post:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZWbbqLMlR2gJ:forums.bible-truths.com/index.php%3Ftopic%3D5238.0+%22those+that+ask%22+site:bible-truths.com&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

And, here is the link to "Winning Souls For Jesus":
http://bible-truths.com/souls.htm

[Kat]

Hi Duane,

Here is an excerpt from the article 'The Christian hell is a Christian HOAX' that expanse on what Patrick was saying. (Underlined and bold text are what I wanted to emphasize.)

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D1.htm ------------

Surely God does not desire for even one person to be deceived? Surely He DOES:

"and for this cause GOD shall send them strong DELUSION [Gk: 'fraudulence, straying, deceit, delusion, error'] that they should BELIEVE A LIE" (II Thes. 2:11).

Read that again a few times, as most of you either didn't get that verse, or you just flat out don't believe it should be a part of Scripture.

And before the ink is dry on this Installment I will be accused of teaching that God purposefully causes people to be deceived. Imagine that? Many will say, "I don't want to hear any more of this kind of teaching." No, what they mean is, "I don't want to hear anymore of the Word of God, for they despise the Word of God:

"you despise this word" (Isa. 30:12);

"he has despised the word of the Lord" (Num. 15:31);

"they have cast away the law of the Lord of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel" (Isa. 5:24);

"Whoso despises the word shall be destroyed..." (Prov. 13:13).

But why would anyone despise the word of God? Because they are deceived of Satan and are unrighteous:

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe A LIE" (II Thes. 2:10-11).

When it comes to these 'hard sayings' of the Scriptures, most Christians start having problems with these "inerrant" words of their King James Bibles. No, they don't want to believe these plain and properly translated Scriptures, but they are most eager to believe the erroneous and fallacious translation of aionios into an "everlasting" and "eternal" hell of torture.
--------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Duane]

I would like to THANK each of you who took the time to think thru and write your responses to me==Duane

[judith collier]

I've thought about standing before the Lord and what I would say or feel and I figure I will be ashamed no matter predestined or not but I will trust in His mercy and understanding of myself being dust and of little regard. I will ask forgiveness for my responses and how I wish I could have done better but knowing I never did.  I trust He will read my heart and my constant attempts at willingness to do the right thing even though I failed deplorably. Then I will thank Him for His redeeming blood and counting me for His own and for being a God that never abandoned me. And that He recall my love for Him and not my sins.
Judy