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Author Topic: Spiritual power?  (Read 2320 times)

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Morten

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Spiritual power?
« on: July 07, 2010, 03:16:40 PM »

Hey
I just wondering why many people feel there is something in the house where they live. I know 1 person who say that something happens in her house. Weird sounds, like something falls on the floor when no one is near to the thing. Can hear whispering. Many people are afraid to be alone.
Does it say anything about this issue in the bible, that people will believe in this? I have never experienced this, and i have never believed in it. But why does so many people say that there is something more between heaven and earth? (of course it is, but i hope you know what i mean :P)
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Kat

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Re: Spiritual power?
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2010, 05:33:41 PM »


Hi Morten,

I have not personally witnessed it myself, but yes I believe there are real demons that can cause some strange things to happen in this world.  Here is a compilation of Ray's teaching concerning DEMONS.

http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html -------------------------------------

"And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the DEVILS are subject unto us through your name. And he said unto them, [I know] I BEHELD Satan as lightning fall from heaven [when and as it was happening through the commands of His disciples]."

Christ’s disciples were filled with JOY over the power that Jesus had given them so that even spirits were subject to them. Jesus had just said that He would thrust Capernaum down from THEIR HEAVEN, their high place in their own mind. Next the disciples report back that they were able to cast down spirits (demons) from men’s minds, from their own heavens. They were excited to tell Jesus what they had done. They had the power to cast down DEMONS from men’s heavens, from out of their MINDS. And Jesus answered them back by saying, YES, I KNOW, I BEHELD Satan (prince of the devils and demons), fall from the heaven of men’s minds while you were doing it! And then even Jesus "rejoiced" (Verse 21).

God has a heaven. It is a SPIRIT REALM. It is where God lives and has His Being. Men too have a heaven. It is likewise, the REALM where they live and have their being—they spiritually live in their own minds, their own heavens.

Notice Prov. 23:7, "For as he THINKS in his heart, SO IS HE." The ‘heart’ is the innermost seat of our deepest emotions, but it is accessed through the MIND. It is what one thinks that determines what one is. When the king of Babylon THOUGHT that he had ascended into heaven in his mind, then that is where HE WAS, "so IS he." But ... BUT, it was man’s heaven and not God’s. No ‘man,’ no ‘carnal man’ has ever ascended into God’s heaven of spirit,

"And NO MAN has ascended up to heaven [God’s heaven], but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man WHICH IS IN HEAVEN [right at the very time He was speaking these words]" (John 3:13).

Jesus could live "on earth" and "in heaven" at the same time! But carnal men live in the heaven of their minds all the time. Man’s heaven is a place of spiritual delusion; whereas God’s heaven is a place of spiritual enlightenment.

"And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the EARTH [of man] and the HEAVEN [of man] fled away; and there was found NO PLACE FOR THEM… And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a NEW heaven and a NEW earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." (Rev. 20:11, 16 & 21:1).

It would be mind-boggling enough to think that the entire UNIVERSE could "flee away," but it would be quite another to then suggest that, "there was found NO PLACE FOR THEM." That would be absurd if taken literally. ALL THESE THINGS ARE SPIRITUAL! In the white throne judgment there will be no more a place for the flesh, for the carnal mind, for man’s heaven. There will truly be no place found for them. They will be annihilated in God’s "CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29 & I Cor. 3:15)!

God will give man a new earth and a new heaven, and as for the great sea of carnal, God-defying humanity, "…and there was NO MORE SEA."


http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html --------------------

SATAN AND THE ANGELS DID NOT HAVE “FREE-WILL”

Was Satan once an angelic cherub named “Lucifer” who used his supposed God-given free-will to rebel against God and thus become Satan the Devil?

It’s a fable. It never happened. It is a Christian hoax. Satan was never “good.” Satan was never “truthful.” Satan does not have free-will. Satan was always Satan, and nobody but Satan  “…from the beginning.”

For proof that Satan was never an angelic cherub named “Lucifer,” see Installment IX. I will not take the time to re-write that proof here, however, we will look at Scriptural proof that Satan was Satan from the beginning, and that God created him as he is. Satan did not create himself or free-will himself into the Devil.

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”  (Gen. 1;1).

We all know what the earth is. The heavens, however, is a different matter. The physical heaven is where we find the moon, sun, and stars. But God’s domain is a spiritual heaven.

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world [Gk: ‘age’], against spiritual [Gk: ‘spiritual powers of, or spiritual hosts of, or spiritual forces of’] wickedness in high places [Gk: ‘heavenly places’]” (Eph. 6:12).

So God created the plural “heavens” “in the beginning.” And Paul tells us that there are “principalities and powers” in these “heavenly places” or “celestials” as it is in the Greek. And that these “principalities and powers” are powers, hosts, or forces that are “wicked!”

“For by Him [Jesus] were all things created that are in the heaven [Gk: ‘heavens”—it is plural in the Greek as it is in the Hebrew], and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers ALL things were created by Him, and for Him” (Col. 1:16).

“Principalities and powers” are part of the “all” which Jesus created “in the beginning,” at the beginning of creation. And these “principalities and powers” are “wicked” forces, which we wrestle against. These powers are under authority. 

“But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow does not cast out devils [demons], but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils”  (Matt. 12:24).

Beelzebub is from the Hebrew, Baal [a Phoenician deity] and Zbuwb [a fly], thus the “god fly.” Couple this with the knowledge of where flies hang out, and in parody, Satan was known as the dung god. Fitting, I think. Jesus accepted their use of this title for Satan:

“And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand. And if Satan [referring back to Beelzebub introduced by the Pharisees] cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?”  (Matt. 12:25-26).

Satan never was a cherub possessing free will; neither does he now have free will. Satan is a creature that obeys the commands of his Creator and never talks back. Whenever Jesus told Satan to “get thee behind Me,” Satan got behind Him (Matt. 16:23, Mark 8:33, Luke 4:08).   When God said he could go so far and no further in the trial of Job, then that’s precisely how far he went and no further. When Jesus told Satan “get thee hence… then the devil leaves Him…” (Matt. 4:10). Satan has no “free will” to resist.
v
v
THE KINGDOMS OF SATAN AND HIS ROLE AS ADVERSARY

A note of great importance: Why didn’t God personally, and directly bring all of these trials and calamity of evils upon Job? Why did God USE Satan? Or is this just another case of God “allowing” Satan to test Job? We shall soon see how much God “allows” in the Scriptures, and it will shock most people when they learn the Truth.

At the start of this paper we learned that Satan (Beelzebub) has a “kingdom.” And that it involves the spiritual realm of demons and devils.

But Satan rules over far more than just the realm of demons.


http://bible-truths.com/email9.htm#wrestle ----------------------

[Ray Replies]

Dear Jim:

Well, just like almost everything else Christians adopt as truth, their knowledge of demons and spirits is equally eschew.  First, Jim, always remember the basics:

"...for it is not ours to wrestle with blood and flesh, but with the sovereignties, with the authorities, with the world-mights of this darkness, with the spiritual forces of wickedness among the celestials" (Eph. 6:12).

So it is NOT the physical that is our biggest problem (flesh and blood), being overweight, etc.

Next we must understand that demons are FALSE DOCTRINES -- "doctrines of demons" Paul calls them. So anything that would influence us to believe in, follow, or be persuaded by any such things are demons influences.

So when we speak of "anger" we are in the realm of the spirit. James says, "Whosoever is ANGRY with his brother is a MURDERER"! WOW! "Be angry and SIN NOT -- do not let the sun go down upon your ANGER" is another. 

So being overweight and having uncontrolled anger are two totally different things.  Being overweight is no more a sin than having flat feet. There are thousands of things in the biological makeup of our bodies over which we have and nor can we have control. If one is a total glutton, that is a lust of the flesh, but MANY overweight people eat very little for their size. But anger, that's different. Anger comes from within the man and it can cause one to SIN.

Now then, what do we do with the demons of anger, lust, and other aberrant behavior, cast them out?  Well, if all we had to do was "cast them out," we wouldn't have to "wrestle" with them, would we?

Satan and his demons have their role in God's creation. God Himself has even commissioned LYING spirits to go out and do their dirty work (I Kings 22:22). So demons are real, they are here, and they will be around for a long time.

How should we handle them -- ask the preacher to cast them all out so that we are clean and will never be bothered in any spiritual way again, not to mention having a perfect size body? No, here's what God tells us we should do after telling us that we DO WRESTLE against these forces:

"Therefore take up the panoply [armor] of God that you may be enabled to WITHSTAND in the wicked day, and having effected all, to STAND.  STAND, then, girded about your loins with TRUTH [remember I said demons are FALSE doctrines], with the cuirass of righteousness put on, and your feet sandaled with the readiness of the evangel [gospel] of peace; with all taking up the large shield of FAITH, by which you WILL BE ABLE TO EXTINGUISH ALL THE FIERY ARROWS OF THE WICKED ONE."

So the truth is that we continue to wrestle and do battle with them -- it is good for us to do so, it MAKES US STRONG in the TRUTH and in our reliance of God's spiritual armor to protect us.

Hope that helps your understanding a little better.


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2600.0.html ------

ALL of God's created celestial beings are "messengers."  Angel means messenger. From that Perspective, Jesus is a Messenger (Mal. 3:1-2).  If these messengers are bad, we might refer to them as devils, demons, OR adversaries, but they are STILL MESSENGERS.


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2540.0.html ------

The only spirits "roaming around" are demons, not the spirits of DEAD people.


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1910.0.html -------

    There is "possession" and there is "obsession."  Many people are obsessed with demons and evil spirits rather than being actually possessed and totally out of control mentally.

    Catholic exorcism is more superstition than Scriptural.  Protestant ministers try to shout and SCREAM them out of people.  I had only a few personal experiences with people who were demonized.  With one elderly woman we prayed and one by one Jesus casted out a half dozen or so demons--each with his own name, I might add.

    The truth is that we "wrestle against such spiritual wickedness in high places" (Eph. 6:12).  It is part of our Christian walk of faith.

    The world is filled with "spirits of antichrist."  Many Christians worship these spirits.  I cast out dozens and dozens of these spirits of antichrist on our bible-truth.com site, and many pastors, theologians, and Christians hate and despise me for doing it. They love these evil spirits. But always remember, that if you have the Spirit of God in you, then:

    "Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world" (I John 4:3-4).


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7769.0.html -----------

Could you please comment on Henry W. Wright's  assertion that all physical illness has its origins in sin?

Dear Reader:  Certainly.  It is an amazing thing to me how that Christians will often spend many hours, years, and whole lifetimes, researching and writing books, etc., using as a premise something that can be totally invalidated by 30 seconds in the Scriptures.

Jesus Christ "knew NO sin" (II Cor. 5:20). Contrary to those deranged heretics who think this verse teaches that Jesus was the very personification of sin.  No, Jesus was "WITHOUT sin" (Heb. 4:15).  Now then, did Jesus ever experience sickness or disease?  Yes, matter of fact, He did.  Isaiah is a prophecy concerning Jesus Christ, and here is what it says:

Isa 53:3 He is despised959 and rejected2310 of men;376 a man376 of sorrows,4341 and acquainted3045 with grief:2483...." Strong's #2483, choliy, SICKNESS, DISEASE."

So much for Wright's assertion that "...all physical illness has its origins in SIN."

See also:  Luke 4:23--Why would Christ the Great Physician need to be "healed?"

Notice also:

Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

Joh 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents [that is 'sinned to cause this blindness']: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

God be with you,

Ray


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2862.0.html ---------------

Who makes people sick God or satan?  Preachers say God is all powerful but then give satan all the credit when something bad happens.     

    Dear Reader:

    I can give you the simple answer, but few there be who [1] believe it or [2] understand it.
    "ALL is of God," but God never lies, never temps people, and never causes people to sin.
    Men lie, and men are tempted by their own lusts, and men sin VOLUNTARYILY from their heart.
     
    Yes, Satan causes disease, Luke 13:16, but only becuase it is in God's plan and purpose that there be disease in the first place.

    God be with you,
    Ray


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2470.0.html ---------------

Ray;
        Are ministries, dedicated to the casting out of demons, lagitimate?  Is every sickness a demon?     
 
   Dear Rod:
    There is no way that I can answer a question like that without knowing all ministers.  I am sure that most of them are dedicated to whatever it is that they do.  No, all sickiness is not a demon, however, these messengers can be responsible for bringing on sickness and disease.

    God be with you,
    Ray


http://bible-truths.com/email4.htm#stop ------------------------------

Demons do not want you to trust God for the salvation of all humanity, and so they are placing doubts in your mind about everything.

God is quite capable of saving all humanity and all of the heavenly host including all demonic forces.  He will not loose ANYTHING that He has created for a purpose. They will ALL fulfill His purpose. You, Tina, have a purpose in God's Kingdom. There are evil forces that want to discourage you realizing that calling and purpose. I will pray that God will rebuke these evil forces causing you discouragement.  Remember, it is through MUCH tribulation that we enter the Kingdom of God. 

Trust me, Tina, God is not punishing you for not going to your husband's church. Study and pray daily for God's guidance in your life. Listen to GOD'S WORD and not to demons whispering in your ear!  Let me know how else I can help you, Tina. You will be all right!

Sincerely,
Ray

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Morten

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Re: Spiritual power?
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2010, 07:05:26 PM »



"I have not personally witnessed it myself, but yes I believe there are real demons that can cause some strange things to happen in this world. "

Indeed. Yeah i belive allot of strange things are happening.
Thanks for a great post. Its allot of things i didn't think about.

But i think its wierd that people say it's in some special rooms, not everywere in the house. Like should the spirit just be in a room and make sounds so it should scare some people. it just make nonsense. Is it to take away the eye to God. Allot of people dont even belive in God in the first place, so whats the reason. But this is things we maybe will never understand. But it is hard to know what to say if some people say this things, when your really not sure what it is by your self.

But this was a really good line. "Prov. 23:7, "For as he THINKS in his heart, SO IS HE." It is what one thinks that determines what one is.
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Joel

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Re: Spiritual power?
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2010, 11:26:33 PM »

Hi Morten,
I think we all know that evil in it's many forms is definitely real.
But I am comforted by knowing that GOD is in control, and is never at Satan's mercy.
James, 4:7,8
Submit yourselves therefore to God. RESIST the devil, and he will flee from you.
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.
Ephesians,4:27
Neither give PLACE to the devil.
1st Peter, 5:8,9
Be sober, be vigilant: because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Whom resist steadfast in faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
John,10:10
The thief (devil) cometh not, but for to steal , and to kill, and to destroy: I (JESUS) am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Joel
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Duane

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Re: Spiritual power?
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2010, 01:03:34 AM »

Morten...IT IS REAL!  I experienced it TWICE in my life.  Once with a Chrisitian friend and once with my
Christian family (my father was a minister).
At the Afton, N.Y. Fair, everytime the merry-go-round started playing this older woman was dragged , off-balance by the wrist to a spot where she wold close her eyes, extend her arms and twirl until the music stopped and she would walk away until the music started and she was dragged back and twirl around in a 10-15 foot circle again!  Strangley she never hit a person swingng her arms and she never tripped over the many tent stakes and ropes in her way!  IMPOSSIBLE humanly.

Secondly, my nephew and his wife bought a house from my uncle, whose daughter was said to have dabbled with the spirit world.  He and his wife would go to bed and hear noises in the kitchen next to them, like the refrigerator door open and close.  Also thins got left around and rearranged in their house during the night.  My family was there one night when this "thing" appeared in the doorway.  The dog saw it and barked fiercely and we sensed it but couldn't see it BUT BELIEVE ME --IT WAS THERE!  My father prayed that the spirit would be  removed from the house. 

They since have moved and have had no more activity of that nature.  So the spirit could have been exorcized or the next people could be experiencing it.
We don't know--but when you have your wedding pictures and momentos on the head board of your bed and go to sleep and wwake up to find your wedding picture turned around facing the wall and things rearranged it WAS SOMETHING!
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 08:53:50 PM by Duane »
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judith collier

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Re: Spiritual power?
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2010, 04:21:25 AM »

And sometimes people are just nuts!!!! I was in Louisiana once having a good old time on Bourbon street but my friend was scared out of her mind. She just knew the devil was there. And I knew it was all in her mind, she gave to much credence to her worst fears.
Isn't He who is in you greater than he who is in the world.
Don't entertain evil by focusing on it, talking about it.  Look away, ignore it, resist the temptation to be drawn in by it.  Evil has no power other than what you give to it. It's like a magnet or a moth to the flame.
Always look for the good in people and in general. I know once by driving the fear from my mind that I was saved from a horrible experience. Evil feeds on fear and weakness.
Hail the King, Jesus, by whose name every knee shall bow and every mouth confess that he is Lord.
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Morten

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Re: Spiritual power?
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2010, 11:44:19 AM »

Don't entertain evil by focusing on it, talking about it.  Look away, ignore it, resist the temptation to be drawn in by it.

Iam not. It has nothing to do with temptation or focusing on it, even if it maybe looks like it. But i think its good to know what reality is.

I was just thinking about it, and was wondring if people pretend if its true or not.

Thanks for the answer Dual and Judy:)
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daywalker

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Re: Spiritual power?
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2010, 01:49:51 PM »

Hey
I just wondering why many people feel there is something in the house where they live. I know 1 person who say that something happens in her house. Weird sounds, like something falls on the floor when no one is near to the thing. Can hear whispering. Many people are afraid to be alone.
Does it say anything about this issue in the bible, that people will believe in this? I have never experienced this, and i have never believed in it. But why does so many people say that there is something more between heaven and earth? (of course it is, but i hope you know what i mean :P)

It could be any number of things, angels, demons, or simply strange phenomenon not yet understood by science and physics. [or it could be drugs  :D]

Personally, I've had a few strange events happen that I know wasn't natural, and I have a few family and friends who've had "ghost" experiences that cannot be explained in "logical" terms.


Daywalker  8)
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G. Driggs

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Re: Spiritual power?
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2010, 11:02:30 PM »

These witnesses says it all for me.

Eph 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world (aion-age), against spiritual wickedness in high places.

2Co 10:3  For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2Co 10:4  (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
2Co 10:5  Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

gdriggs
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 11:03:37 PM by G. Driggs »
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mcmiller

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Re: Spiritual power?
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2010, 01:48:58 PM »

The first question I had to answer for myself regarding this issue was if spiritual entities have the ability to manifest themselves in the physical and as such perform physical acts.  We have evidence that this is so many times in the old testament: Abraham with his visitors, Jacob wrestling with an angel, Moses and the burning bush, Satan afflicting Job, etc.  But, can they act independantly?  No!  If we accept that, then God is not in control of everything.  A major case in point is when Elijah confronted the prophets of Baal.  If Satan could operate independantly, then he had a golden opportunity in front of the whole nation of Babylon to show his stuff, but couldn't even create a spark.  God is the creator, and none other has this ability.  God created the physical laws by which the physical realm operates, and only He has the authority and ability to violate these laws, and that is what we call a miracle.
As humans we act based on what we believe to be true (Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks).  Paraphrased this might say "Out of the abubdance of the mind, the body acts". If we know the facts, principles or truth, we act truthfully and rationally.  If we are deceived, either self deceived or externally deceived, we may act irrationally or immorally.  Examples: chemical abuses, promiscuity, bigotry, financial issues, relationships, etc.  We know that there are deceptive influences to our thinking both spiritual and physical, even our perceptions can be influenced by what we actually see, or think we see as in a vision.  We know that visions are real, they are the stuff of biblical prophesy and spiritual revelation.  But, none of these manifestations happen apart from God and his purpose.  If someone is confronted by such a manifestaion I first would question whether it happened in the physical, or could have been a vision, or as previously mentioned the actions of someone who is deranged.  I have not done a bible search for instances for what we would call manifestations by demonic entities, but I can't recall any that were not instituted by God.

Mark
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Kat

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Re: Spiritual power?
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2010, 03:46:37 PM »


Hi Mark,

I personally do not believe that demons can manifest into something physical. Though Christ was describing someone born of spirit I believe that description is good for those spirit being now.

John 3:8  The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Those beings that are now spirit, are invisible. When Christ called the demons out of people that were possessed He sometimes spoke to these demons, but there was never a mention of seeing anything physical. But they can be powerful and can influence physical things. So I think it can manipulate physical things, but I would not say it could perform physical actions. Now if you consider spirit as being like the wind, we know that the wind can be very powerful force. I don't think we know enough about these beings to say for absolutely sure what they can and can't do. Of course God is in control of all things and these beings are certainly only doing what is within the bounds He has predetermined and set, just like with humans.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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