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God and Christ one .
gallenwalsh:
I have read some of the discussions on Christ and God the father, the difference between the two and still have some confusion regarding Christ. What I understands is: Christ is a created being,the spokesman for God the Father. He was created to look like a man, but has a spiritual body.That is IF you could see into the spirit realm. He was Made flesh, for the purpose of dying. Then he went back to what he was before.A spiritual being that looks like a man. This seems pretty straight forward to me. Where I get confused is:It has been said, Christ is spirit, God the father is spirit, they BOTH are the Holy spirit. What confuses me is: The previous statement suggests that Christ is "A" spirit, and the GOD the Father "IS" spirit. So how then can Christ be "'SPIRIT"as well. As I am writing this it seems foolish to focus on such a thing ,but, that being said it seemed important enough to write a paper on it and everyone I am sure would like to know about it, because we all ask questions about it.Can it really be understood ?I was reading someones comment comparing our inheritance to immortality to being just a drop of water being added to the ocean. would the drop of water even care about itself after that? It is as if you become "part" of "everything" at that point, similar to the Hindu belief of nirvana, and the Japanese belief of oblivion .Is this supposed to help ?Or am I just stupid? Seriously .
Deborah-Leigh:
I don’t think you are being stupid gallenwalsh!
Some of the analogies that contemplate Hindu or Japanese beliefs are very poetic but they miss the Truth. I am aware of that one about the drop becoming the Ocean and it sounds good, looks good but misses the something vital that at first I did not discern, but now do. Here is what Jesus said AFTER He had DIED, and was Resurrected to life when He appeared to them:
Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me have.
Jesus Christ has not only the Spirit of God that He shares as One with God, ~ Jesus has a SOUL TOO! I came across the fact that the Scriptures say that the life is in the blood actually should be translated that the SOUL is in the blood. This point was made by Ray, that blew my mind when I first heard it. :D
Lev 17:11 Lev 17:11 For the lifeH5315(should read .../For the SOUL) of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls:H5315 for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.H5315
I went to look up the Strong’s Concordance H5315, and saw for myself the truth of the insight. I believe we have to be as the Soul, Life, Mind, Heart, Person, Body, Self and Soul as is Christ, which happens to be some of the other translations for H5315!
What Hindu and other religions don’t get, is that God is making us into His Image. It is the Spirit of God through the Son, that is causing us to become Sons and Daughters of God.
2Co 6:18 AND YOU SHALL BE MY SONS AND DAUGHTERS,' SAYS THE LORD THE RULER OF ALL."
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as he is.
Jesus Christ is with the Father and comes to us as the Holy Spirit
Joh 14:26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send at my request, will teach you everything, and will bring to your memories all that I have said to you.
I hope this will add to your understanding and encourage your desire to know God. I know there are some very important excerpts from out of what Ray has shared with us that perhaps someone will come by and post here for us, and better serve to answer your question.
Arc
Kat:
Hi Gallenwalsh,
I think God the Father as just simply beyond our comprehension. First off He is invisible spirit, He is not a being that is in a certain place, because He is everywhere, this is an enigma to us. He is self-existing and eternal, no beginning and no end, another enigma. By what ever means (Ray has explained this to some degree) He is or became perfect in wisdom and all goodness, yet another enigma. His power/spirit is holy and the means by which all things exist, which means His Spirit is everywhere and in everything.
So He determined to bring about humanity and would make us the way that we are (physical and temporary) and how we think and He knew that we could not comprehend who or what Him is. So in His great wisdom He created a being, a replica of Himself, but in the form of a man (like we are), so that we would be able to relate to Him, Jesus Christ. He is spirit and has an unending existence in the spiritual realm, a state of immortality. He made Christ as the Supreme Being (under Himself) to carry out this plan for the creation of this universe.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
v. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
v. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
The human race has been given a physical existence so as to experience good and evil (the tree of life) and of course there is the whole plan of salvation. This physical 'stage' is just that, the first stage/part of the process of being brought towards immortality and it is temporary. But it is an absolute necessary part of the process, we must first live in this world and be deceived, corrupt, dishonorable, weak to the pulls of the flesh, a sinner, this is the dark backdrop we all must experience. But God promises us this is not the end of it.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
v. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
v. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
v. 45 And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
v. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.
v. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven.
v. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly.
v. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
So the few at the first resurrection will receive immortality, be changed from these weak physical bodies to powerful, glorious spirit bodies and join Christ in the kingdom of heaven. I do not believe that God has put us through all that we experience on this earth to develop the good character traits, so as to bring us all together into one homogeneous mass. No, all this we are experiencing now is for a very good reason, to create individuals, separate or distinct with personalities distinguishable from one another. All of our different personalities are to be used to interact and deal with this huge amount of human beings yet to be saved. What God is doing is far greater than the Hindu, Japanese or any other understand.
Luke 8:10 And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that
"Seeing they may not see,
And hearing they may not understand.'
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Dave in Tenn:
I don't believe the word 'life' is mistranslated there. And I don't believe Jesus "HAS a soul." I don't "have" a soul. I AM a soul. I'm not different from Him in that regard. SOUL and LIFE are largely interchangeable. I suppose there could be life without 'soul'. Maybe plants and bacteria "have" that. Our LIFE and everything about it (mind, emotion, character, memory, etc. etc. etc.) IS our Soul.
I can't explain it better than Ray:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11605.0.html
Deborah-Leigh:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on August 22, 2010, 11:26:02 AM ---I don't believe the word 'life' is mistranslated there.
--- End quote ---
Dave,
Perhaps you should reconsider your stance. Ray made the point that the word life in the Scripture Lev 17:11 should be translated as Soul not life. The comment is in one of Ray's Audio's. It was such a huge surprise for me, that I have thankfully remembered it to this day! I do not have the luxuary to find exactly where Ray made this insight public for you to go and hear for yourself and perhaps someone else may have the opportunity. :)
Arc
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