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God and Christ one .
gallenwalsh:
So then is Christ only in one place at a time with a spiritual body, Ray has said we will have a spiritual body just as Christ does.Even though Christ has a spiritual body he has the spirit of the Father in him. It has been said he has it to the FULLEST measure.We only get a sample, a down payment of the full inheritance.Our physical bodies could not contain very much of it, kind of like a wineskin having new wine in it, it would just bubble and burst. Which just made me think of us as being the wine ( first fruits ) of the kingdom, that Christ referred to in that he would not touch wine until he drinks it anew with us in the kingdom. Does that make any sense ??
gallenwalsh:
I was under the impression that the blood of Christ did nothing. It was a spiritual work Christ did on the cross.The blood just symbolized the work.God respects the work, not the blood, it's just physical stuff.Christ himself was the sacrifice and still pleads with the father on our behalf. As we will for the rest of humanity when we are ready. The way I understood the cross was that God spared not even his own son( first born) our experience. He had to become fully us so we could become fully him. God knows the end from the beginning so he created the end first. Christ was not complete ( as our savior) until he became us. Prior to that he was creator.So now he fully understands us so that we can fully understand him. Did I get it wrong ??
Dave in Tenn:
Arc, in the concordant sense, it may be that Nephesh should ALWAYS be translated 'soul'. It isn't always in the KJV. It's the inconsistency of translation that God is using to blind people. If you can find that passage, I'd appreciate reading why Ray prefers 'soul' to 'life' as the consistent translation of the Hebrew.
I'll stand by the rest of my statement. We ARE souls. That too is knowledge learned at B-T and hard won, as I believed most of my life in the psuedo-spiritual gobblygook disseminated by Christian fairy-tale writers. It would be easier to express 'we are lives'...at least we kinda know what a 'life' is. But it's perhaps more powerful and effective to finally understand what SOUL is. Then it doesn't matter much whether you say 'soul', 'living-being', or 'person' or some other name for a life--you're talking about the Nephesh in scriptural terms, and still speaking English. :)
Kat:
Here is an excerpt from the bible study 'Was Christ Made Sin?'
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6719.0.html -------
So Jesus Christ did not take away our sins by being “MADE into sin,” being made OUR sin, did He? No, of course not. Jesus was made a “OFFERING for sin.” His Own body was the offering, and it was the BLOOD inside of His body that would actually do the cleansing and removing of our sin. We were not washed in the mind of Jesus by Jesus’ mind becoming our sin and the sin of the world, but we were washed by “His Own BLOOD” to accomplish this. And it was the blood that came OUT of His body that was the real sacrifice.
1 John 1:7 …and the BLOOD of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
Remember: “…when Thou [God] shall made His SOUL [nephesh] an offering for sin…” (Isa. 53:10). And just where is the “soul” of man found?
Lev 17:11 For the life [‘soul’ - nephesh, not ‘life’] of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the BLOOD that makes an atonement for the soul.
And so it is abundantly clear from the Scriptures, that it was not the heart or mind of Jesus that was the actual offering for sin, but His Own body which contained His blood. And this very blood which contains Christ’s soul, that was poured out onto the ground, which atones for OUR sin, not for His sin - JESUS HAD NO SIN NOR WAS HE MADE TO BE SIN.
-------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi gallenwalsh
I came across this that perhaps may give you more to contemplate regarding the conclusions and questions you have posted.
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_7B.mp3
So this is the best that God can do, but it’s not pretty and it’s not fancy and it’s not always happy. It’s painful and sad and much of our lives are misery, you know, laughing on the outside and crying on the inside. It’s not always happy happy happy, but it’s necessary. Is it right, that God should put us through something like that?
We have no say about it, we didn’t ask to be born and we didn’t ask to get lung cancer or whatever. We didn’t ask for this, God puts us through it. Is it fair for Him to do that? Why is it fair? Well there is something good in store. But is it necessary that we would have to go through all of this bad first? It’s true, you have to have the contrast. But sometimes I just say, Lord I think I’m at the place now, Lord I think I’m there. You can take away the bad and see if I’m not thankful.
He sent Jesus Christ to go through the same stuff we go through and that’s why I wanted to bring these out today. Because most of you never knew that. Jesus Christ lived a pretty painful life. Paul lived a pretty painful life, he said I learned to be content in all things. God put His Son through what we have to go through, because He loves us! He didn’t have to.
Jesus Christ did something between His creation and the creation of the earth. He did something to acquire God’s glory, something. Because He had it and He didn’t get it for nothing.
God wants creatures, He wants children, He wants sons and daughters. He has a desire to have something like Himself. But for us to be like Him, we have to go through some pretty tough stuff. So He sent His Son as an example, as how you can go through it and never get angry or upset with God. And to never turn against your fellowman, because of what you have to go through. He lived a perfect life, of the perfect man, sick and diseased, in pain and He lived it perfectly. But God was living in Him, the Father was going through it just as much as He was, you see.
Christ had to die, it said He had to die for our sins. That’s true, that’s the scripture, Christ died for our sin. But then we have a scripture here that doesn’t mention sin.
John 3:16 "For God so(thus) loved the world,”
Thus or in the manner, a lot of people think it’s saying He loved us so much, but that is not what this is saying. What this is saying is God loved us, in this way. This is the manner and way in which He loved us. In this way He loved the world.
“…that He gave His only begotten Son,”
Ok, He died, they killed Him on the cross, He died.
“…that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.”
Of course the Bible is written so man does not understand it. That’s why some of these things are put in there, “that who-so-ever believes.” God knows and now we know, everybody is going to believe. So the ‘who-so-ever’ is going to be everybody, ok.
But He gave His Son, now here’s the point I want to make and that is this, why did Christ have to die? Why? Why did the Father sacrifice His Son? Why did He have to do that? HE DIDN’T HAVE TO DO THAT! He didn’t have to do anything, HE’S GOD! Why did He?
Because whether you recognize it now or later in life or those in the resurrection to judgment or for the rest of eternity, we are going to know it for sure. That God died for us for no other reason than to show us that HE LOVES US! He did not have to die. He said, I will do it to show them. How can I show them that what I am putting them through has real value? What can I do?
I can promise them the world, I can give them mansions and youth and joyful life. I have all that to give, but they will say, you are only giving out of your abundance, of what you have. What can I really do, that you will know that I really love you? And God said, I will DIE!
But God can’t die, He’s eternal, He has immortality, deathlessness. If you have immortality you can’t die.
So He made a Son. He made Him great. And to show us how great He was, He said, let Me show you what I can do when I make a Son. Ok, Create the universe first, now become a man, and now die.
Then they will know We love them.
Then they will know.
Arc
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