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Author Topic: Heaven  (Read 3821 times)

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booker

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Heaven
« on: September 06, 2010, 12:54:57 PM »

I need some clarification on these verses.

Heaven is Godís throne
Isaiah 66:1
Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

Acts 7:48-49
Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

Matthew 5:34-35
But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.


Jesus was taken up into heaven and sat at the right hand of God
(Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55-56).

Jesus told us that there are many rooms in Godís house and that He has gone before us to prepare a place for us.

John 14:1-4
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.


Paul in his letter to the Corinthians, encouraged them to cling to the hope of heaven so that they would not lose heart.
2 Corinthians 5:1-4
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Hebrews 10:19-22
Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
And having an high priest over the house of God;
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

And

Revelation 21-22

I know about "And no one has ascended up to Heaven "

This is what i found online "The word 'ascend' means to go up. It pictures someone or something that goes up of its own strength.John 3:13 does not teach that no one has ever seen or entered heaven. It teaches that no man ever climbed up into heaven by his own power. The only one who has ever ascended to heaven in His own strength is the One who originated in heaven and came down to earth before He ascended."

btw.I'm not trying to challenge ray's teachings,just looking for answers i don't find on his papers.


« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 01:00:14 PM by booker »
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Marky Mark

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2010, 02:19:23 PM »

Hello booker. What exactly is your question?  ???

Peace...Mark
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soberxp

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2010, 04:41:19 PM »

Gal 4:16  Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? 
Gal 4:17  Those people are zealous to win you over, but for no good. What they want is to alienate you from us, so that you may be zealous for them. 
Gal 4:18  It is fine to be zealous, provided the purpose is good, and to be so always and not just when I am with you. 
Gal 4:19  My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you, 
Gal 4:20  how I wish I could be with you now and change my tone, because I am perplexed about you! (Hagar and Sarah ) 
Gal 4:21  Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 
Gal 4:22  For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 
Gal 4:23  His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise. 
Gal 4:24  These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 
Gal 4:25  Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 
Gal 4:26  But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 
Gal 4:27  For it is written: "Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband." 
Gal 4:28  Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 
Gal 4:29  At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 
Gal 4:30  But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son." 
Gal 4:31  Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman. 
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aqrinc

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2010, 07:56:32 PM »

Hi booker,

Ray has addressed those questions on the Website and also members have covered your topics on the forum. If you wish to hold a discussion on any one of these topics or all of them, let us know what you think about them and what you need clarification on.

Suggest you look here: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3108.msg23193.html#msg23193 first, as most subjects already have multiple answers.

george ;D.

« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 08:02:52 PM by aqr »
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Akira329

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2010, 09:57:47 PM »

I know about "And no one has ascended up to Heaven "

This is what i found online "The word 'ascend' means to go up. It pictures someone or something that goes up of its own strength.John 3:13 does not teach that no one has ever seen or entered heaven. It teaches that no man ever climbed up into heaven by his own power. The only one who has ever ascended to heaven in His own strength is the One who originated in heaven and came down to earth before He ascended."

btw.I'm not trying to challenge ray's teachings,just looking for answers i don't find on his papers.

What are you trying to say?
Men have seen and entered heaven but not by their own strength???
Your asking for clarification but what specifically??

Antaiwan
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"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus

Kat

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2010, 02:53:01 AM »


Hi Booker,

The Kingdom of God/Heaven are one in the same. It is the abode/mind of God in perfect goodness, holiness and truth. It is not a place, but a spiritual realm.  

Your identity is your mind that produce thoughts, attitudes, behavior, intellect, awareness, reason, ideas and memory that come into our awareness from our experiences/life. This is an invisible realm, it's our inner awareness/personality... our heaven. When we begin to learn the knowledge of the truth, we are developing the mind of God, the process of being made into His image.

Luke 17:21  nor will they say, "See here!' or "See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you."

Here is a section from the article 'The Lucifer Hoax and the Mission of Satan.'

http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html --------------------------------------

GODíS HEAVEN IS HIGHER THAN MANíS HEAVEN

Satan is the god of this world (I Cor. 4:4). Satan possesses ALL the kingdoms of the world (Matt. 4:8-9). Satan appears to the heads of his nations as an angel of light (I Cor. 11:12). It was Satan who appealed to the heaven of Eveís mind. It was Satan that caused the people to build a tower that would reach MANíS concept of heaven. The heaven of the minds of those conceiving of such lofty things. It was Satan who caused the king of Babylon to be lifted up in his own heaven, his own mind. Listen to his own words:

"At the end of twelve months he walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon. The king spake, and said, is not this GREAT BABYLON, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of MY power, and for the honour of MY MAJESTY?"
v
God has a heaven. It is a SPIRIT REALM. It is where God lives and has His Being. Men too have a heaven. It is likewise, the REALM where they live and have their beingóthey spiritually live in their own minds, their own heavens.

Notice Prov. 23:7, "For as he THINKS in his heart, SO IS HE." The Ďheartí is the innermost seat of our deepest emotions, but it is accessed through the MIND. It is what one thinks that determines what one is. When the king of Babylon THOUGHT that he had ascended into heaven in his mind, then that is where HE WAS, "so IS he." But ... BUT, it was manís heaven and not Godís. No Ďman,í no Ďcarnal maní has ever ascended into Godís heaven of spirit,

"And NO MAN has ascended up to heaven [Godís heaven], but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man WHICH IS IN HEAVEN [right at the very time He was speaking these words]" (John 3:13).

Jesus could live "on earth" and "in heaven" at the same time! But carnal men live in the heaven of their minds all the time. Manís heaven is a place of spiritual delusion; whereas Godís heaven is a place of spiritual enlightenment.

"And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the EARTH [of man] and the HEAVEN [of man] fled away; and there was found NO PLACE FOR THEMÖ And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a NEW heaven and a NEW earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." (Rev. 20:11, 16 & 21:1).

It would be mind-boggling enough to think that the entire UNIVERSE could "flee away," but it would be quite another to then suggest that, "there was found NO PLACE FOR THEM." That would be absurd if taken literally. ALL THESE THINGS ARE SPIRITUAL! In the white throne judgment there will be no more a place for the flesh, for the carnal mind, for manís heaven. There will truly be no place found for them. They will be annihilated in Godís "CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29 & I Cor. 3:15)!

God will give man a new earth and a new heaven, and as for the great sea of carnal, God-defying humanity, "Öand there was NO MORE SEA."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace, and love
Kat
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 11:26:22 AM by Kat »
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santikos

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2010, 10:39:58 AM »

kat, that is very very deep knowledge.
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2010, 11:56:46 AM »

Isa 55:8  For My Thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My Ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9  For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My Ways Higher than your ways, and My Thoughts than your thoughts.

1Co 2:10  But God hath revealed them to us by his Spirit; for the Spirit searcheth all things, even the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11  For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but The Spirit which is from God; that we may know the things that are freely given to us by God.
1Co 2:16  For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the Mind of Christ.


Arc
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Patrick

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2010, 12:43:29 PM »

Greetings, booker!

John 5:19 The Son can do nothing of himself..
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing..
John 8:28 I do nothing of myself..

Jesus didn't have any strength to ascend, just like He didn't have any strength when He went to the cross.
Mark 14:36 take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

"Jesus was not free to run from the cross. God inspired [caused] Jesus to pray. And God caused Jesus to pray that His Fatherís will, would be done, not His Own will. It was a real battle for a few hours. The will of Jesus cried out for another way other than to drink the cup and go to the cross. Hour after hour He poured out His heart to His Father. And hour after hour His Father propped Him up so that He would not and could not give in to His flesh."
L. Ray Smith
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-B.html
 
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2010, 01:13:36 PM »

Booker,

A simple rule that has yet to fail:

Whatever the church teaches (of any consequence) is a lie, including what they teach about heaven.

What continues to amaze me is they are not only wrong, but the truth is 180 degrees (exact opposite) from what they teach. I consider it a miracle.

Dennis
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Marky Mark

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2010, 01:55:30 PM »

Does not Jesus live in Heaven and also in us? How then could heavens not mean our own mind and heart. A Spirit of oneness in Truth, in our own minds, make up the heavens in which we all are trying to obtain in our personal walk with the Spirit.Even though our minds are at this time in a physical brain,this will not be the case at the time of resurrection for the elect.Gods heaven does not change,only mans heavens change, by the Power of The Truth in us all.


Peace...Mark
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Joel

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2010, 08:25:16 PM »

Hi Booker,
We can and do get a taste of what heaven with God is like now.
Ephesians,2:4-7
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,(by grace ye are saved;) and has raised us to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Fellowship with likeminded believers, talking about spiritual things, is a heavenly realm.

Joel
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Dawidos

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2010, 09:31:08 AM »

[quote link=topic=12212.msg106275#msg106275 date=1283906029]
with this rebellious and self centered carnal creature beast we all possess.
[/quote]

I wish you knew how sometimes I would like to get rid of this beast inside of me. It's a constant fear that it will escape captivity and destroy everything what I've been trying to achieve so far. It's a permanent struggle which I sometimes win and sometimes lose.

Blessing
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 07:24:41 AM by Craig »
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booker

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2010, 10:22:54 AM »

Thanks for the replies,however i don't know why my post was deleted so I'll post it again,

What does these scriptures mean

John 14:2-3
In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.

And

Revelation 21-22
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life,...
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mharrell08

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2010, 10:31:57 AM »

Thanks for the replies,however i don't know why my post was deleted so I'll post it again,

What does these scriptures mean

John 14:2-3
In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.

And

Revelation 21-22
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life,...


Booker,

Your post wasn't deleted, these same scriptures are still in your original comments. I guess no one has answered them yet.

Also, you may want to be specific when you ask 'what do they mean'. One thing for sure is that neither of these passages are literal.



Marques
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GaryK

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2010, 11:54:55 AM »

Thanks for the replies,however i don't know why my post was deleted so I'll post it again,

What does these scriptures mean

John 14:2-3
In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.

And

Revelation 21-22
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life,...




At least for the 2nd part, Rev 21-22, re-read here:

THE CHURCH OF EPHESUS
http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html

3/4 way down the page.   Should help.


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Kat

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2010, 11:57:44 AM »


Hi Booker,

John 14:2  In My Father's house (3614) are many mansions (3438); if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

G3614 house - properly residence (abstractly), but usually (concretely) an abode (literally or figuratively); by implication a family (especially domestics): - home, house (-hold).

G3438 mansions - a staying, that is, residence (the act or the place): - abode, mansion.

John 14:23  Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home (3438) with him.

2Cor 5:1  For we know that if our earthly house (3614) of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house (3614) not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
v. 2  For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house (3613) which is from heaven:
v. 3  If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

G3613 house - a residence (literally or figuratively): - habitation, house.

What I'm trying to show is all these words in the Scripture "house," "home," "mansions" all mean the same thing, it's talking about our body that holds the spirit of life. You can see in 2 Cor. Paul calls our physical body an "earthly house."

Now God's house/abode is the Kingdom of God/Heaven, a spiritual realm. In John 14:23 Jesus said He and the Father would "make Our home with him," this is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that a chosen few receive in this lifetime.

So in John 14:2 when Jesus said "I go to prepare a place for you," that was actually to be when the Holy Spirit/Christ comes to dwell in and preparing the Elect... the process of making them into the image of Christ.

John 14:26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

Those few chosen are prepared in this lifetime and will be in the first resurrection and given a new spiritual body at that time. That new spiritual abode/house will be so much greater then this physical body that Christ likens it to a mansion.


Rev 22:1  And he showed me a pure river of Water of Life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

This "water of life" is the precious, pure truth, that will be taught to all the people of the earth during Christ's rule.

Isa 11:9  They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,
       For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD
       As the waters cover the sea.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 05:45:09 PM by Kat »
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Shawn Fainn

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Re: Heaven
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2010, 12:28:10 PM »

Excellent post Kat.

It's amazing when the truth of the scriptures comes, that they all seem to be consolidated and easier to understand.
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