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is GOD humble?
markn902:
Hi I am far from an expert on these things but your question (grapehound) got me to thinking about the difference between "begotten" and "created" . Actually I never thought there was a difference so I looked into it (with what could be called rudimentary skills) and this is what I found. The word begotten in relation to Christ is monogenēs strongs G3439 here is a link with an audio pronunciation http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3439&t=KJV
it seems to me that as it is used in Luke 7:12, Luke 8:42, & Luke 9:38 verses that are not about Christ
it implies an only child. John 1:14 & 1:18 that same word is used in relation to Christ. Now I would take that to mean Our Lord and Savior is God's only child in the sense that he was created miraculously through a virgin birth. No one else can make that claim since or before.
now the words I found for "created" ktisis Strong's G2937 seem to speak to the act of creating (which wouldn't conflict with begotten) and the old testament word bara' Strong's H1254 which can mean to create, shape, form also doesn't seem to conflict with begotten. I believe IMHO that God "created" his only "begotten" son. Now if he was "created" before his actual physical birth(which I believe he was wholeheartedly) that doesn't disqualify him from being created physically (especially taking into account Strong's G2937 "the act of creating") as his only begotten son. if that makes any sense :)
Again I'm not trying to prove anyone right or wrong your post actually intrigued me and made me wonder if I was missing something in the meaning of these words. I know Strong's isn't the be all end all to proper word translation but I think it does a good job here.
Mark
Joel:
To be humble doesn't mean your are a pushover,or an easy mark. I don't think Jesus was that in any way. He was a suffering servant, but mighty in word and deed.
Who Jesus was and what he was and is, becomes simple to me in the light of the scriptures that proclaim him to be THE WORD OF GOD.
Where do our words come from?
Where did Jesus get his words from? :)
Joel
grapehound:
Thank you all my wonderful Brothers,
I just finished Nashville 2007 audio 4 "The Real Jesus", AND : I GET IT! Phew! I thought I was gonna go nuts there for a while!
Thank y'all for your patience with me, and for licking me into shape. :-[ ;D
Dave in Tenn, your a great sheepdog bro. Luv ya.
Markn 902 I think you nailed that pretty well, thanks.
Well, onward and upward !
Muchest Luv
Grape x
Samson:
--- Quote from: grapehound on September 28, 2010, 07:42:13 PM ---Created being?
I thought He was begotten.
Vanity and humility are carnal traits surely?
Or are we still seeing God in human terms?
--- End quote ---
Hi Grapehound,
I was away for two days visiting my Daughter and just viewed this Thread for the first time. John from Kentucky and Kat covered the "Begotten" part quite nicely. We have had Threads like this before where different ones didn't realize that Jesus had a beginning, They believed that He's "Eternal," like the Trinitarian type view.
I will share some points with you from a different angle. Besides the definition of the Greek Word Genao: "Begin, beget, conceive, beginning, began, etc, another point is this, the word "Eternal" is a mistranslation of the Greek word Aionian and the Hebrew word Ohlam, so what this means for the sake of this discussion is that whenever a Scripture is talking about Jesus being God in the Old Testament or the New Testament and the word Eternal is mentioned, most people reading these passages believe Jesus or Jehovah(Jesus name in the Old Testament) had no beginning, because the word Eternal means Endless without a beginning, whereas the word "Everlasting" means Endless, but with a beginning. An example would be 1Timothy,1:17(King "Eternal," should be Eonian and "Forever and Ever" should be Ages of the Ages, Greek-Aions). Psalm. 90:2(From Everlasting to Everlasting, you are God, the Hebrew Ohlam should be Ages of the Ages). Revelation. 5:13,14 uses Forever & Ever in reference to The Lamb(Jesus Christ), the Greek Word is Aions mistranslated Forever, should be "Eons of the Eons," or "Ages of the Ages."
Hope this helps some more, Samson.
Akira329:
--- Quote from: gallenwalsh on September 28, 2010, 06:58:10 PM ---It’s an amazing thing, God is perfect, He knows He is perfect, all wise, all knowing, all love - perfect. But Jesus Christ as God, is humble. It just doesn't seem to go together, but actually it fits very nicely. Now it doesn't say that the Father is humble, not that He is vain. But it does not say He is humble...........................This is a quote from one of Ray's papers. The question I have is this: If the spirit of GOD dwells in Jesus Christ and Christ is truly humble,and Christ is the image of the Father, is the Father then humble also ? I do not get where Ray is coming from and how he comes up with that one.Can someone expound. Thanks !
--- End quote ---
Hey Gallenwalsh,
Ray said that in his 2006 Mobile Conference
It seems it was a question Ray had then but I'm sure he has the anwser now.
You should probably email him directly.
However the scriptures are clear:
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
That is a fruit of the fathers spirit, Meekness(humility)
A study of the Nashville 08 conference should help!
Hope this gives you direction.
Antaiwan
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