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Author Topic: Will we see God ???  (Read 2726 times)

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bob

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Will we see God ???
« on: October 02, 2010, 01:46:15 PM »

Question ??

I did not want to hijack a thread from "  Who do we pray to?" So I'll ask the question here.  From Kat's post, Ray is quoted as saying: " John tells us that we will see Jesus AS HE IS. I know of NO Scripture that tells us that we will ever see the Father" (do you?).  How do we square this with Ray's question.    

 to Matthew 5:8 "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God."
Matthew 5:7-9 (in Context) Matthew 5   What am I missing?  Thanks Bob
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Joel

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Re: Will we see God ???
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2010, 03:15:19 PM »

Hi Bob
The Father is Spirit.
I don't know of any scriptures that say we can see Spirit.
Jesus said to Philip:
John 14:9
Jesus said unto him, Have I been so long time with you,and yet hast tho not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Joel
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Marky Mark

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Re: Will we see God ???
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2010, 03:27:53 PM »

Hello Bob. :)

Remember that Christ's words are Spirit and that the meanings are always Spiritual. One will never be able to see God the Father,He is invisible.But one who is pure of heart and holy in the sight of God will have the same Spirit as the Father and Christ. We will walk in Their ways.That is how one will see The Father,[Spiritually],by God being in us and we in Him. The Father and the Son are one,and when we are saved by the Spirit we too will be one in God also.

Hope this helps.


Peace...Mark
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 03:30:21 PM by Marky Mark »
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Patrick

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Re: Will we see God ???
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2010, 04:13:27 PM »

1 Cor. 15:28; And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. KJV

Php 3:20  For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Php 3:21  Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

"John tells us that we will see Jesus AS HE IS. I know of NO Scripture that tells us that we will ever see the Father" (do you?)."

http://www.bible-truths.com/part9.htm

"(I Cor 15:28) Other than this one Scripture, God tells us nothing concerning our future with Him beyond the eons or His plans for eternity."
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Kat

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Re: Will we see God ???
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2010, 04:38:20 PM »


Hi Bob,

Here is an excerpt from the 06 Mobile Conference transcript 'The Father's Will,' I think it will give you a better idea of God.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3720.msg27960.html#msg27960 ----

Acts 17:26 ďHe has made of one blood, all nations of men, for to dwell on the face of the earth.  And He is determined their appointed seasons and boundaries of their habitation,
v. 27 that they should seek God, if haply they might feel (grope) after Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;Ē

Now we have another false concept, where is God? in heaven?  Well, where is heaven?  Waaay up there?
He is not far from any one of us, but what does that have to do with the theory, you have to go worship in a church or on this day or that day? He is not far from any of us! We donít pay attention to the words.
 
GOD IS SPIRIT, but nowhere in scripture does it say, God is a Spirit, God is Spirit.
 
V. 28 ďFor in Him we live, and move, and have our being (we exist in Him), as certain even of your own poets have said, for we are also His offspring.Ē

Whenever Paul could make a connection with their pagan beliefs, he made the connection, so they would say, this man knows what he is talking about. Paul said, I am become all things to all men to gain some, (1 Cor. 9:22). When you go to Japan, you take off your shoes before you go in the house, he didnít say Iím not going to take off my shoes for nobody.
 
Rom.  13:7 ďRender to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.Ē

So here he was siding with them, look your own poets have said that we are Godís own offspring. They were pagan, but they were right, in some things they were right.
 
So letís think about this a little bit, who is the Father? In Him we live and breath and have our being. Liken the ocean to the Spirit of God, and liken us to the fish.  The fish are 95% water, the ocean is in the fish, and the fish are in the ocean, get it.
A bird has very porous bones, because they have to be very light. It flies in the heavens, it breaths fast, because it needs strength and oxygen. So the air (which is like the Spirit of God, which is what he calls it in the NT, Greek word for spirit is pheuma), the expanse is even called heaven, where the bird flies, and liken the air to the Spirit of God. The bird has air in him and is flying through the air.

Now this is what the Scriptures say, we are in God and God is in us. So, get it out of your head that God is a man, sitting on a stone throne, like Abraham Lincoln in Washington D.C., an old man with gray hair. God is right here, it (Bible) says so, we have to just listen to the words.

God is Spirit, it also says God is invisible, you canít see Him, not literally. We can see Him in Spirit, as in our heart, in our mind, our soul, our spirit, in our innermost being.
 
The thing that makes us different from plants and other animals, is we can see God.  Iím trying to help you right now, to see God. So when you leave here, you will see God in a way you didnít, when you walked in here. If God opens it up to you, I can only tell you, but God must open it up for you to grasp it.

God is here, not here because we are here, but He was here before we got here and Heíll still be after we leave. Because this desk is here and this desk has it's cohesion in Jesus Christ. It is through Jesus Christ that this desk holds together or it would fall apart. It takes energy and power, what is the source of the power, Jesus Christ, which comes from the Father and itís passed off out of Him. One Father, one God, all and everything is out of Him. GOD IS ALMIGHTY!

What did Jesus say when He left His apostles and vanished out of their sight.
 
He said, ďall power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth,Ē (Matt. 28:18).
 
Thatís why He has come, Heís not the Father, but Heís God and He possesses all power in heaven and earth. By being the One, who possesses all power in heaven and earth, He is God. He didnít have all power in heaven and earth from all eternity, it was given to Him. One God, everything is out of that God. Weíre in Him and Heís in us, because Heís Spirit. Not a Spirit, in some geographical location.  The reason God knows everything is in all places at all times, is because thatís where He is. Heís Spirit and He refers to Himself as Spirit. My Spirit is here, there and everywhere.

David was inspired to write, where can I go to get away from you God, up to heaven, down to sheol, (Psalms 139:7-12).
Thereís no place I can go, where you are not. Why?  God is Spirit, God is not a man, get that out of your head. He (God) tells us that, God is not a man... Jesus Christ is a man.

Where is God?  EVERYWHERE!
If you're in a life raft, out in the middle of the ocean, you donít have to cry out to God, to help you. God can see you, in the big ocean. Heís there, whether Heíll help, thatís a different story. But He is there.

I clipped this saying years ago and pasted it in the front of my Bible,

          'Thy ocean, O Lord, is so great and my boat is so small.'

Itís the truth, we are pretty small in the universe. Everything is out of God.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Will we see God ???
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2010, 04:56:57 PM »


 I know of NO Scripture that tells us that we will ever see the Father" (do you?). 


Joh 14:8  Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.
Joh 14:9  Jesus said to him, Have I been with you such a long time and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father.


Arc
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lauriellen

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Re: Will we see God ???
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2010, 07:46:03 PM »

there are very many posts on this site that state that Jesus is no longer flesh but spirit, but that we WILL see him when He returns. i don't understand why we should have any problem thinking that we will be able to see Jesus (who is spirit) and  not be able to see the Father (who is also spirit)......this verse has always spoken to me of the intimate relationship that our Father wants with His children:

Rev 21:3  And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4  And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

in my carnel thinking mind, it would be almost like having an 'imaginary friend' to have a relationship with a being that we have no hope of ever seeing....
thats just my thoughts anyway.

lauriellen
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Kat

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Re: Will we see God ???
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2010, 08:31:12 PM »


Hi Lauriellen,

Here is a quote from Ray from part of the above post, "God is Spirit, God is not a man, get that out of your head. He (God) tells us that, God is not a man... Jesus Christ is a man.

Where is God?  EVERYWHERE!"


My understanding is that God the Father is not a spirit or an actual being as such that you can see His form, otherwise how could He be "everywhere?" You see what I mean? That is the reason I believe that He created Jesus Christ, so that we would have a God that we could relate to. Doesn't that seem to be what Christ was saying when He answered Philip?


John 14:8  Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.
v. 9  Jesus said to him, Have I been with you such a long time and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father.

Jesus Christ is the closest we will ever get to 'seeing' the Father. Now we can 'know' the Father at this point through Jesus Christ, but I believe that when we become spirit as Jesus Christ is spirit, we too will have a comprehension of the Father that we can relate directly with Him. So what I'm trying to say, imo the Father is just beyond our comprehension at this time, He is simply not anything that our experience in the physical can relate to, accept Jesus Christ.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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lauriellen

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Re: Will we see God ???
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2010, 09:23:01 PM »

Lev 26:12  And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.

then is all the scriptures that tell of "God" walking amoung men, dwelling amoung men, wiping away tears, ect...are these all talking about the person of Jesus and not the Father?.....also, when the scriptures talk about
angels 'appearing' to different people, these are 'spirit' beings that where able to be seen by humans?.....After 'vivification', when the corrupt physical body is raised a spirit body, will we all be able to 'see' one another?....i guess i just always assumed that 'spirit' beings could make themselves 'seen' if they chose to....maybe i need do some more study on this......also, i have heard Ray say many times that even tho 'something' may NOT be stated 'outright', that we could 'deduce' some things from what IS stated in the bible....i guess i just thought that since 'other' spirit beings were able to be seen at times, that even tho God is not a man, or person or 'a' spirit, but THE SPIRIT, i just assumed (deduced) that He also could make Himself seen if He chose to.
thanks for your reply....and you are right....there is SO MUCH that my little
bee-bee brain is unable to comprehend....i pray every day..."God, there is so much i don't know....help me to KNOW & understand you."
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Kat

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Re: Will we see God ???
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2010, 12:36:41 AM »


Hi Lauriella,

Here is a few more things that Ray has spoken on the subject that may help.

http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html ----------------------

Jesus Christ had a physical body and could be seen, whereas God does not have a physical body (God is SPIRIT) and God cannot be seen as He is INVISIBLE. It is interesting to note that the KJV translates this word "[h]upo'stasis" into 'substance' but one time in Scripture and that is not in Heb. 1:3, but in Heb. 11:1, Now faith IS the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things not seen."  Now that translation should receive some sort of prize for one the WORST possible translations in all Scripture.  

Paul said we are to live by FAITH and not SIGHT [or perception]. What is "substance and evidence" but things that can be seen, weighed and perceived? And things that can be SEEN AND HANDLED (as
in "substance") don't require faith in the first place. Faith is was is required when there IS NOT SUBSTANCE OR EVIDENCE! An infidel can believe in things he can see and handle!  Faith is the "assumption" or "confidence" or "assurance" ASIDE from any substance or evidence!

Possibly the Greek "[h]upo'stasis" can be used to mean substance, however, not in any Scripture that I am aware of.  And the same is true with Heb. 1:3. Jesus does not "consist" of the "substance" of God Who is invisible, but rather Jesus is the VISIBLE IMAGE of the INVISIBLE GOD. God does not bear this visible substance which can be seen, therefore He send His Son in a VISIBLE form that can be seen (and heard).  

This same Greek word is found in other Scriptures, but it is NEVER translated "substance." Notice for example, II Cor. 9:4, and 11:17, Heb. 3:14. If the Father were to take to Himself a Form or a Substance then what we would see is CHRIST. Christ IS the express image, form, (or substance if you insist) of God His Father. However, the difference is that when Christ takes on all of the Father's form, image, character, etc., etc., we can see and hear and touch Him with our hands, but we still cannot see, hear or touch our Heavenly Father with our physical hands. Jesus said that when we SEE Him we SEE the Father even though the Father is INVISIBLE! Granted, this is a little higher than theology 101.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7560.0.html  ------------------

Dear Diran:  Your questions are not worded precisely enough to know exactly what you are asking, but I'll make a try at it with a few COMMENTS (in red).......


Good day sir,

May God give you more wisdom in the teaching of His word.

Now I want to ask question on this issue of resurrection which is confusing.

1.  It is agreed that the believer/saint of God will resurrect with spiritual or glorified bodies if this are the same to reign with Christ. Now is Christ reigning physically as a person on this earth?

COMMENT:  First, Jesus IS "a person." Who would He reign as a non-person? What is a "non-person?"  Christ will reign spiritually, but that spiritual reign has many physical manifestations.  Was Jehovah a  "physical" God over Israel? It is difficult to even know what you mean by such a phrase. God is not physical, but He can and does interact with physical people. And yes, it will be on this "earth," not on some other world or plant or heavenly realm.

 if yes then are the resurrected saint reigning with Him in spiritual bodies while He reign physically? this is confusing. Pls shed more light scripturally.If this lake of fire is spiritual, then I agree that the torment will be for ever. What is your stake on this?.

COMMENT:  I'm sorry, but I just don't get that? Do you mean while Christ is "reigning physically with a spiritual body?" or "reigning physically with a physical body?"  When Jesus was resurrected "SPIRITUALLY," He still had the power to manifest Himself in several DIFFERENT forms or bodies--the stranger walking with the two men to Emmaus, the gardener, the stranger on the shore, and as His old physical self with holes in His body.

Apparently God's Servants will be able to physically manifest themselves so that they can be SEEN:

Isa 30:20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall SEE thy teachers:

And on other occasions they will NOT be seen:

Isa 30:21 And thine ears shall HEAR a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.


2.  The wicked are to resurrect physically to face judgment in the lake of fire which is the second death. If the lake of fire is spiritual as per your writeup, how on earth can one be physically thrown into the spiritual lake of fire.

COMMENT:  Did you actually read my Installment:  "Hades and the Second Death?"  We (if we are the Elect of God), right here and now, in our physical flesh, go through the second death/lake of fire, and that fire is SPIRITUAL!  We in the flesh do not go through LITERAL fire to be spiritually cleansed and purified.  We go through spiritual fire.  Our literal trails are spiritual fire and spiritual judgment. Why can't physical people go through spiritual trials and judgment? Peter calls them "FIERY trials" (I Pet. 4:12).  Maybe re-read my last Installment.

God be with you,

Ray


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mharrell08

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Re: Will we see God ???
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2010, 11:30:58 AM »

We seem to have 2 threads with similar subjects, so I'm locking this one. I believe Bob & Lauriellen have received a good amount of comments.

If not, they are free to join the other thread with similar name and subject. Sorry for any confusion
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