bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Need Account Help?  Email bibletruths.forum@gmail.com   

Forgotten password reminders does not work. Contact the email above and state what you want your password changed to. (it must be at least 8 characters)

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: We shall see God.  (Read 5573 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

RRHinds

  • Guest
We shall see God.
« on: October 03, 2010, 12:00:54 AM »

Dear Bretheren, there seems to be some disagreements to the word of God if we can see him or not. I believe that we can. In Genesis chapter one God clearly says, "Let us make man (human beings) in our image" Gen:1 26. If we are the Image of whome made us then they do have a body, I say they because God did say let us and not let me make man in our and not my image. (food for thought) Also in Gen:3 verse 8 onwards, God is walking in the garden and was looking for Adam and Eve who had hidden themselves from God because they were naked. When they showed themselves God himself spoke to them face to face. Also at the very beginning of the Bible it states that the spirit of God was hovering over the waters, which is strange if God is only Spirit how does a spirit have a spirit. We are made of Body, Spirit and Soul, so if we were made in the exact image of God then he too has a body spirit and soul.

There are more verses in the Bible that proves God shows himself to whome ever he pleases. I myself when I gave my life to him I saw Christ in the flesh.
God bless you all.
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: We shall see God.
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2010, 12:25:43 AM »


Hi RRHinds,

When you come here and make statements of what you to believe to be true, it is not for us to try to change what you believe. We are here studying what we believe to be true and there is no disagreement on the Word of God, we use it complete as the final authority on everything we believe.

But unless you have studied what we believe to be true to some degree, how can you disagree with what we believe by these few posts here? You make mention of some quote from Genesis that we have studied in great depth in the articles here.  Everything that is taught on the BT site and here is backed up by a multitude of Scripture. It would be a very good idea for you to study what is presented here before you make accusations about what we believe.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Logged

RRHinds

  • Guest
Re: We shall see God.
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2010, 12:33:06 AM »

Hi John
I can only tell you what happened at my conversion. There were about 15 to 20 Christian Brothers and Sisters in the room they were all singing and praising God. I up till then only knew the protestant way of worship, with dull hyms without life. Now these people were claiming that Jesus was alive and was in the room. I scepticaly started singing with them, but in my mind I was laughing at them, when suddenly the room was an empty black space, I looked down at my feet and could see that my left foot was ligering over a gapping hole, and if I took one more step I was going to fall right into it, I then heard a soft warm voice call out my name. I turned around and saw a man with long golden hair and a long golden beard. He was holding his hands out to me and said it is me you are laughing at. I just knew then that this was Jesus Christ the Son of the most high God who was calling me. I do not remember much after that as I was slain in the spirit. The next day the people told me that I prased theLord all night and was even baptised with the Holy spirit and spoke in tounges. They said that I my body glowed all night too. That is all I remember. Just remeber this my good friend, He can show himself as he wants to whome ever he wants to. He might appear to you as the beggar on the corner of your street, you never Know.

God bless.
Logged

RRHinds

  • Guest
Re: We shall see God.
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2010, 12:51:12 AM »

I did not mean to sound arogant, if it came across that way, please forgive me, but I have studied the word for over 30 years. I have been to many congresses; I have watched hundreds of hours on the television with inumerous preachers and Teachers of the word. I have studied many topics that Ray has written, but as all the other teaching I agree with some and do not agree with others. I have a very close and personal relationship with God. I have had many strong spiritual encounters with God and also with the evil one. Many sipritual battles. I have seen many things that would make the hair grow on the back of the most dedicated Christian. I have seen spirits roaming the streets and in houses amongst many other things. I am by far not perfect, but I like to believe what is in the Bible and not interpretations or translations by this scholar or that scholar just because he or she has a degree in theology (this does by no means include Ray) Humans are prone to making mistakes. I prefer to listen to the Spirit and understand from Him what is right or what is wrong.

So as to not cause anymore problems I think I shall keep quiet and just read the topics from now on.
Logged

Arion

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 684
  • Marquette, MI
    • Big Bay Michigan Weather
Re: We shall see God.
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2010, 12:59:02 AM »

Quote
Ray:
I was on www.aionios.com listening to your audio "How Hard is Getting Saved?" part1.  Near the start you comment on Genesis 1:26 and that God 'created' man (past tense) is incorrect.  You claim that it really says 'creating'.  I have checked all the translations and interlinears that I have and can find nothing that supports your claim.  Everything I have found says 'created'.  Please can you provide me with a source or other proof to backup your claim.
Thanks,
Wes


Dear Wes:
The truth is that most Versions are not interesting in translating "THAT" PRECISE. Since we exist today, it is carelessly assumed that the creation act was completed back in the garden. Here are the words from a Hebrew Interlinear:  "uibra = and-he-is-creating / aleim - Elohim [God] / eadm ath = the-human / btzimu = in-image-of-him / btzim = in-image-of / aleim =
Elohim [God] / bra = he-creates / athu = him / zkr = male / unqbe = and-female / bra= he-creates / athm = them."
 
"And creating is the Alueim humanity in His image. In the image of the Alueim He creates it.  Male and female He creates them" (Concordant Literal Old Testament).
God be with you,
Ray

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2378.0.html


Something also to consider RR is that obviously Adam and Eve sinned....no?  If Adam & Eve were made (past tense) in the image of God then the inescapable conclusion must be that the image of God can sin!!  Do you really want to go there?  More food for thought. 

God Bless and welcome to the forum.
Logged

bob

  • Guest
Re: We shall see God.
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2010, 04:22:44 PM »

Thank you to those who responded to my post "Will we see God". I was away this weekend and did not have time to read all that was said. It is a privilege to be a part of this church. The depth of knowledge displayed on this site from so many people is very comforting. Thanks again, and God bless Ray. Leesburg Bob
Logged

daywalker

  • Guest
Re: We shall see God.
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2010, 08:14:14 PM »

We are made of Body, Spirit and Soul, so if we were made in the exact image of God then he too has a body spirit and soul.

Based on what Scripture?



We don't "have" (are not "made of") a soul; we ourselves (as well as animals) are "living souls":

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

soul = Hebrew "nephesh". Same word found here:

Gen 1:24  And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

creature = Hebrew "nephesh" *Concordant and Rotherham's both translate "soul" as do a few other translations*

All living souls (whether human or animal) can and do die:

Ezekiel 18:4 ...the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
v.20  The soul that sinneth, it shall die...


Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
v.20  All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.



Are we to believe that God (since He has a "soul") dies? God is Spirit--John 4:24. The Scriptures do use "soul" in a figurative way sometimes to describe God (as in His feelings, etc.) but God is not a soul, because a soul is a physical, carnal, mortal being.

...........

This doctrinal teaching of "body, spirit and soul" is unscriptural and is commonly used by Babylon to promote their Trinity doctrine--which Ray exposes in great detail (if you haven't already read it: http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html ).

To help understand the correct meaning and usage of "body, spirit, soul", here's an excerpt from one of Ray's letters to Dr. Kennedy:


                                                         TV ANALOGY

Here is an analogy that is applicable and easy to understand: God's spirit gives life to the body. Only in life does a man have consciousness or sensation. When God takes back His spirit, the body and soul are dead.

Picture a TV console as representing the human BODY with all its intricate circuitry and components.

Now picture ELECTRICITY as the invisible, powerful force representing God's life-giving SPIRIT.

Picture the blank PICTURE TUBE as representing the SOUL.

Without the electricity (God's spirit), the TV and picture tube (body and soul) are dead. All the time I hear preachers talking about our souls and our spirits as if they were one and the same. Soul and spirit are not one and the same.

Next plug in the electricity (God's spirit). The TV comes to life, and we see the picture tube (soul) animated. We see color, sound, dancing, singing, talking, intelligent conversations, all live via satellite. The dead TV becomes a living, visible, animated, intelligent entity-"Soul." But notice very carefully, the Soul (the animated picture in the TV tube) is not one of the original components. It is not a component in and by itself, but is rather the result of two other vital components, Body and Spirit (the TV console and electricity).

At bedtime I sometimes tell my daughter to give the TV a rest. When one turns off the "on/off" switch the TV goes to "sleep." The power light is still on, but the TV is blank and silent.

But now, pull the plug and take away the electricity (spirit) and what happens to the TV console (body)? It dies. It's just a box of circuits. Not even the power light is on anymore. If left unplugged it will, in time, decay and return to the dust of the ground.

And what happens to the colorful animated picture on the screen (soul) when we take away the electricity (spirit)? Want the real answer? Ask a child. Let several children watch TV together, then pull the plug and ask them where the picture went? A child will shrug his shoulders or say "I don't know" or say "It disappeared." Guess what? He is Scripturally correct on all three counts.

Without spirit there is no life and no consciousness. Without power a TV has no life and no animated picture. It's dead.

If you were to ask an ancient Hebrew person what happens to the soul (the thinking, feeling, animated, sentient personality of a man) at death, he would shrug his shoulders or say "who knows" or just say "it disappears." That's what "Sheol" meant to the Hebrews. It was a question mark. And the Greeks had their word for the same idea (Hades-the UNSEEN, the IMPERCEPTIBLE), and hades and sheol are synonymous in Scripture (Acts 2:27).

There is one more profound Scriptural truth that is also perfectly analogous to the operation of a TV, and that is this. Picture God's Throne as the Broadcast Headquarters. The TV picture Tube, by itself, is not the source or originator of the picture it portrays on the screen. It is a channel for the signal transmitted from the TV Station and Tower. It can only manifest and portray on its screen that which is sent from the source [God]. And often the source [God] uses intermediaries like satellites [Angels] to relay the signals.

In Scripture, death is called a "return" [Heb. shub]. Before we were born we had no body, no soul, and no perception of any kind. At birth God gave us a body, implanted to us His spirit, which gives the body perception (through the brain and the five senses). At death, we [shub] RETURN. The reversal of what happened at birth. The spirit returns to God (Ecc. 12:7), the body returns to the dust (all the elements of man's body are found in the ground or earth) (Job 10:9, Ecc. 3:18-21), and the soul returns to no perception again (the imperceptible or unseen-hades) (Acts 2:27 and Psalm 49:15). This is what the Scriptures very plainly teach: where all that man "is" came from, that's where all that man "is" returns to.


http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm


Hope this helps.

Daywalker  8)
Logged

RRHinds

  • Guest
Re: We shall see God.
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2010, 10:21:28 PM »

Mathew 10 verse 28 words spoken by Jesus himself, unless of course you say that he was lying!
But do not be afraid of those who want to kill your BODY; they cannot touch your SOUL. Fear only God who can destroy both SOUL and BODY in HELL. His words not mine. And please don´t try and translate it away through Greek or Hebrew interpretations. God´s word is and was always meant to be simple. Why do you call all churches Babylonian. I know many churches that teach the correct meaning of the word. Okay they are not perfect, but then again who is.

God bless.
Roland.
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: We shall see God.
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2010, 12:25:41 AM »


Hi Roland,

Here is what we believe on the Matt, 10 verse.

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-C.html -----------

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in gehenna" (Matt. 10:28).

IMMORTAL SOUL?

I am now going to show you how to be smarter and more knowledgeable than most theologians in the world—(at least in this one little point). Okay; follow very closely, for we are going to get really really technical for a few minutes:

First: Can God "destroy the body?" Well, yes, of course He can, Jesus just said that He "is ABLE." So God "IS able to destroy the body." Now, I believe Jesus. I think that most of you believe Jesus. But, do orthodox pastors and theologians, believe Jesus? Yes, from all that I know, they do believe Jesus on this point.

Next: Can God "destroy the soul?" Well, yes, of course He can, Jesus just said that He "is ABLE." So God "IS able to destroy the soul." Now, I believe Jesus. I think that (some of) you believe Jesus. But, do orthodox pastors and theologians, believe Jesus? No, of course not. How can a soul which they teach is immortal, ever be "destroyed?" Now let’s proceed to some more "technical stuff":

God created humanity in two stages, not three (Gen. 2:7):

[1] "And the Lord God formed man [Heb: ‘adam, a human being’] of the dust [Heb: ‘aphar, powdered gray, hence clay’] of the ground [Heb: ‘adamah, soil’]

[2] "and breathed into his nostrils the breath [Heb: ‘n’shahmah, puff, wind’] of life [Heb: ‘chay, alive, life, living’] and man became [Heb: ‘hayah, exist, be, become, come to pass’] a living [Heb: ‘chay, alive, life, living’] soul [Heb: ‘nephesh, a breathing creature, animal, vitality, mind, mortality’]."

Well, there you have it: God’s abbreviated version of how He created humanity.

Let me next draw your attention to something that few Christians have ever seen, even though it is right before their eyes in every Bible on earth. I said that God created man in two stages rather than three. I emphasize this because theology teaches that God made man in three stages. Here is their unscriptural version: First God formed the man of the ground, Second God breathed life into the man, and Third God put an immortal soul into the man. If you doubt that this is what they teach, ask your pastor.

However, did we read of these fabled three stages of man’s creation in the Scripture quoted above? No, no we didn’t. We read of two things in man’s creation at the hands of God. First God formed the man of the ground, Second God breathed life into the man, and Third God…? God what? There ain’t no Third. "man became a living soul" is part of stage Two. There is no third stage. God did not "put an immortal soul into the man." Where do we read of such unscriptural nonsense?

God didn’t need to do anything after He breathed into him the breathe of life. It was the breath of life from God that caused the man to become a living soul. God didn’t put a soul into Adam; Adam is a living soul. The spirit of man, which God gives to every human, is like a light switch—Switch it ‘on’ and the light glows: Switch it ‘off’ and the light is dark, gone, dead. Put the spirit in the man, and the man is a living soul: take the spirit out of the man, and the man is a dead soul. Do you think that even your children could understand this Scriptural Truth? Perhaps you should teach them, and then they could teach your pastor.

The "body" of the deceased is gone forever. In resurrection to immortality, God gives everyone a new spiritual body. God can bring back the person in any "body" He desires. When God puts your "spirit" (not you soul) but your spirit (which has no consciousness) back into another body (as in a resurrection with a new spiritual body), the same real person/soul will live again. God can do this, but man can’t, so fear God.
----------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Logged

Samson

  • Guest
Re: We shall see God.
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2010, 12:27:27 AM »

Mathew 10 verse 28 words spoken by Jesus himself, unless of course you say that he was lying!
But do not be afraid of those who want to kill your BODY; they cannot touch your SOUL. Fear only God who can destroy both SOUL and BODY in HELL. His words not mine. And please don´t try and translate it away through Greek or Hebrew interpretations. God´s word is and was always meant to be simple. Why do you call all churches Babylonian. I know many churches that teach the correct meaning of the word. Okay they are not perfect, but then again who is.

God bless.
Roland.

Roland,

            No one believes Jesus is lying or would lie, but Bible Scholars and Translators do lie or at least are misinformed. They might tell you the above words in Your Post(Matt. 10:28) is physically literally, yet why is it, " If your eye offends thee, cut it out or if your hand offends thee, cut it off, because it's better to go through life without an eye or a hand, than to be thrown into  Gehenna(Fiery Hell). I bet that they would concede the passage in Matt. 5:28,30 isn't physically literal. If it was, there would be an awful lot of believers walking around missing an eye and a hand, unless most or all believers haven't offended God, at least once, but I'm sure you would agree, that's highly unlikely. The literal Gehenna mentioned in these verses above have long ago burned out, although unquencheable, it burned out, already serving it's purpose, to completely consume garbage, the carcasses of dead animals and those not given a burial. Whatever the fire didn't consume, the worms would consume, but that literal garbage dump(the valley of the Son of Hinnom) doesn't exist anymore. It's now a beautifully nice place to live. So, it's that simple, what Jesus said by using the word Gehenna(Ge-Valley & Henna-Hinnom).

                                Food for thought, Samson.
Logged

judith collier

  • Guest
Re: We shall see God.
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2010, 02:39:15 AM »

 There can be visions of Christ but the Godhead, no. There can be inward impressions of different characteristics of God  and that alone can bring someone to their knees but it is only a characteristic like mercy or compassion or majesty. It does say in the bible "No man can see God and live" Visions, yes.
Judy
Logged

GaryK

  • Guest
Re: We shall see God.
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2010, 11:59:14 AM »

Mathew 10 verse 28 words spoken by Jesus himself, unless of course you say that he was lying!
But do not be afraid of those who want to kill your BODY; they cannot touch your SOUL. Fear only God who can destroy both SOUL and BODY in HELL. His words not mine. And please don´t try and translate it away through Greek or Hebrew interpretations. God´s word is and was always meant to be simple. Why do you call all churches Babylonian. I know many churches that teach the correct meaning of the word. Okay they are not perfect, but then again who is.

God bless.
Roland.



Not true.


Suggested reading material:

TWELVE GOD-GIVEN TRUTHS TO UNDERSTAND HIS WORD

"None of the wicked shall understand; but the Wise shall understand" (Daniel 12:10)


http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm
Logged

daywalker

  • Guest
Re: We shall see God.
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2010, 02:47:26 PM »

Quote
And please don´t try and translate it away through Greek or Hebrew interpretations.


CORRECTION: The Hebrew and Greek are NOT "translations" OR "interpretations". They are "THE Originals". The English KJV Bible (in which you find the English "Hell") IS a Translation (as are all "bibles" for the record). Any bible translation that contradicts the Original can hardly be called God's Word!

Quote
Mathew 10 verse 28 words spoken by Jesus himself, unless of course you say that he was lying! But do not be afraid of those who want to kill your BODY; they cannot touch your SOUL. Fear only God who can destroy both SOUL and BODY in HELL. His words not mine

Nonsense! Christ never said ANYTHING about "hell". He said GEHENNA--Hinnom Valley (located near Jerusalem). I will not hesitate, nor will I apologize, for correctly quoting our Lord and Savior. You, on the other hand, should be more cautious before saying "His words not mine". It's blasphemy to claim that Jesus said something that clearly He did not.

Quote
God´s word is and was always meant to be simple.


Really? Is that why there are thousands of denominations all with different opinions and theological beliefs (and all who claim they got it from God's Word) because it's simple? Is that why Jesus Christ's own disciples kept asking Him to explain His parables to them, because it was so simple? Is that why Paul admonishes Timothy to "STUDY to show yourself approved unto God" because it's so simple?

"It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings." Proverbs 25:2

But according to you, God wouldn't dare "conceal" anything; He keeps them simple.

Quote
Why do you call all churches Babylonian.

I call the Churches "Babylonian" because Jesus Christ calls them that:

"Secret Babylon the Great the mother of the prostitutes and the abominations of the earth." Revelation 17:5

***Revelation is the "testimony of Jesus Christ" Revelation 1:2; therefore anything said within are the very Words of Christ.


...And the sooner that you realize that the organized churches are all members of Babylon the Great, which will be destroyed when Christ returns (no, not by eternal torture in hellfire, but strict and harsh judgment which will not be pleasant) the sooner you will be able to:

"Come out of her, My people, lest you should be joint participants in her sins, and lest you should be getting of her calamities" Revelation 18:4


Where are Christ's People? Answer: In Babylon. One cannot "come out" of Babylon, without first being IN Babylon. But soon as you come to realize that YOU ARE IN Babylon, then you need to obey His testimony (Rev 1:3) and "Come OUT of her, MY People".

I pray God gives you "ears to hear and eyes to see"...

Daywalker  8)

« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 07:01:53 PM by daywalker »
Logged

santikos

  • Guest
Re: We shall see God.
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2010, 03:00:01 PM »

That is what i was gonna say... ;D
Logged

grapehound

  • Guest
Re: We shall see God.
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2010, 03:21:36 PM »

Splendid witness, Christopher.

Amen and Amen
Logged

Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: We shall see God.
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2010, 06:19:12 PM »

Hi Roland

It is a very long drop (pun intended :) to come out of Babylon especially when you have a track record you doubtless have, to count as loss, for the excellency of the true, accurate knowledge of Christ your Lord. You know well that our esteemed and much loved Brother Paul said:

Php 3:8  Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

Also, Luk 7:47  Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

Is your love for Jesus The Lord, who you know is the sent Son of God the Father ~ is your love less than the aspirations you might have in your Church associations or do you think God may have appointed your time to come out now? If so, you are not alone  :) and here among the brethren we are not short of empathy and understanding of how painful it is to experience when our spiritual houses take a mighty crash! :o It seems to be an on going experience, process and way of God purging by fire those He calls to Judgment on His House now. :) It is a mighty big privilege and immense blessing that is sustained and endured only by and through the gift of the Spirit of our Lord and our God, within. We believe the Scriptures and to the honour of the Glory of our God and His Son, we are so blessed to receive our faith. :)

Christopher, I see you have the like spirit of our much loved Ray Smith! 8) and Samson, a gentle giant.

Blessings
Arc
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 06:26:13 PM by Arcturus »
Logged

mmijares

  • Guest
Re: We shall see God.
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2010, 11:52:05 PM »

Daywalker...

As Arc has already said, you sounded like our dear Bro. Ray in your last post  ;D

-Mij
Logged

Ricky

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 266
Re: We shall see God.
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2010, 12:39:15 AM »

Hey bros, I have a question, why is it that only certain people can see spirits? and not everyone. I am 54 and I have never seen something this incredible, I do not believe it is possible to see invisible things, OR why would God not want me too to see a spirit or two. :( I wanna see one too.
             Ricky
Logged
Your heart is God`s gift to you, what you make of it, shall be your gift to Him.

indianabob

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1741
Re: We shall see God.
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2010, 01:35:19 AM »

Hey bros, I have a question, why is it that only certain people can see spirits? and not everyone. I am 54 and I have never seen something this incredible, I do not believe it is possible to see invisible things, OR why would God not want me too to see a spirit or two. :( I wanna see one too.
             Ricky

Hey Ricky,
Don't be concerned my brother, God is evidently shielding you from spirit visions up until now.
Be thankful and take it as a good sign that God is being gentle with you. Me too since I have
never seen a spirit or a vision or as far as I recall even a vision in a night dream.

There are so many easier ways to learn once God gets our attention.

Regards, Bob
Logged

Ricky

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 266
Re: We shall see God.
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2010, 01:55:31 AM »

Hey thanks Bob, I just don't get what is so special about these that can see them everyday or whenever they feel like it, so Bob you do admit that these spirits are there and they can be seen by people except me, not fair. All I need to do is just see a little one just to see if I can be spooked or not :) no big deal then forget about it and life goes on again. :)

 Bless you all.   Ricky
Logged
Your heart is God`s gift to you, what you make of it, shall be your gift to Him.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.075 seconds with 26 queries.