> General Discussions
Revelation 11:3...11:10
Deborah-Leigh:
Ref LOF Part 1
Chapter 11, Are God's two witnesses that prophecy, literally two olive trees and two candlesticks? but if we study Zechariah 4 we can determine what is meant by "two witnesses"
As I understand ~ Joshua and Zerubbabel prince of Judha...yet mindful that the symbolic meaning and application has a TODAY, internal spiritual significance. :)
Beautiful references Kat. 8)
Arc
GaryK:
Thank you all for your responses. I did study the Zechariah verses and also any referenced material from there foreward and onward, as well.
The part I'm attempting to make some 'spiritual' sense of is this verse:
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
And as Arc referenced and as Ray has taught, all these things are spiritual and each of us will experience these....spiritually. As for the 'two witnesses' for understanding scripture and prophecy, I've read Ray's words but I'm not making a spiritual connection to this:
"And their dead bodies"...
in conjunction to:
ZEC: v. 14 Then he said, "These are the two anointed who stand by the Lord of the whole earth."
Just not seing it.
How do we experience this? What does it mean on a personal level?
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi again gk
Your question regarding the two Scriptures you present asking us a) how we experience them and b) what it means to us, for me, is a most profound question requiring personal testimonies of the work of the Spirit of Christ in our lives. 8)
Your call that we ponder and give consideration to these questions in order that we may amplify our attention to our Lord who has wrought all our works in us...Isa 26:12 LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us.
We are to know, understand and acknowledge our God. Those who don’t Jer 9:3 And they bend their tongues like their bow for lies: but they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth; for they proceed from evil to evil, and they know not me, saith the LORD.
As I relate the scriptures to my own experience, I can see that for me Babylon has fallen. The fall is within me not outside in the world. The dead bodies are those who are not literally dead but spiritually and they are those who continue the practice of dead burying their dead whilst building their white stone sepulchers full of dead men’s bones. They are the keepers of monumental traditions, heresies, false teachings, lies and hypocrisies that kill, blind, maim and destroy. The large jaws of such spiritual death have taken the lives of my world friends and family among whom once I sojourned in fellowship and mutual blindness in darkness. They are dead to me and I to them. Therein that separation out of Babylon, is the joining to our Lord in sharing His Baptism and Death, in my body of experience and personal relationships and changes that bring clarity to the differences in being part of a spritual like minded family and one that is family only by physical birth.
Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service…..where also our Lord was sacrificed. This is spiritual not literal as you will know. :)
Regarding the last Scripture :
Zec 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
The revelation of Jesus Christ in our lives, is about His Spirit being unveiled within us by thw Work of God and His Spirit without which we can not understand, acknowledge or know God.
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into Him in all things, who is the Head, even Christ:
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the Head of the church: and He is the Savior of the body.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the Head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the Head of Christ is God.
A man without his Head as Christ is of great dismay for any God fearing woman and even the worse experience for a woman who is lost. :(
I personally believe there is a spiritual significance that may be compared between the following two scriptures.
Zec 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
Rev 22:17 The Spirit and the Bride say, 'Come;' and whoever hears, let him say, 'Come;' and let those who are thirsty come. Whoever will, let him take the Water of Life, without payment.
The above reminds me of what Ray said in his conference concering those who wish to join us. Ray expouned the following Scripture :
Rom 14:1 I now pass to another subject. Receive as a friend a man whose faith is weak, but not for the purpose of deciding mere matters of opinion.
Christ Jesus is the pre-eminent anointed of God the Father. That is not an opinion ~ :) The Spirit is God the Father, Who with the Bride, I believe will be not without the Lord but shall stand by the Lord, Jesus Christ the Lord of the whole earth.
Blessings to you gk
Arc
G. Driggs:
--- Quote from: Arcturus ---Christ Jesus is the pre-eminent anointed of God the Father. That is not an opinion ~ Smiley The Spirit is God the Father, Who with the Bride, I believe will be not without the Lord but shall stand by the Lord, Jesus Christ the Lord of the whole earth.
--- End quote ---
You know what Arc? That does not make any sense at all. ;) ;D I think you know what I mean. ::)
--- Quote from: L. Ray Smith ---It has been remarked many times that "prophecy is dual." Actually, I believe that many prophecies are multi-layered.
--- End quote ---
What you said Arc is a perfect example of the above quote by Ray. The 'two witnesses' are so much more than two pieces of Scripture. Thank you so much Arc, I have wondered about the very question Gary asked for a long time.
As for the rest of your post dear sister, a witness and an answer for Gary's question.
Psa 79:1 A Psalm of Asaph. O God, the heathen are come into thine inheritance; thy holy temple have they defiled; they have laid Jerusalem on heaps.
Psa 79:2 The dead bodies of thy servants have they given to be meat unto the fowls of the heaven, the flesh of thy saints unto the beasts of the earth.
Psa 79:3 Their blood have they shed like water round about Jerusalem; and there was none to bury them.
Psa 79:4 We are become a reproach to our neighbours, a scorn and derision to them that are round about us.
Psa 79:5 How long, LORD? wilt thou be angry for ever? shall thy jealousy burn like fire?
Psa 79:6 Pour out thy wrath upon the heathen that have not known thee, and upon the kingdoms that have not called upon thy name.
Psa 79:7 For they have devoured Jacob, and laid waste his dwelling place.
Psa 79:8 O remember not against us former iniquities: let thy tender mercies speedily prevent us: for we are brought very low.
Psa 79:9 Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name's sake.
Psa 79:10 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is their God? let him be known among the heathen in our sight by the revenging of the blood of thy servants which is shed.
Psa 79:11 Let the sighing of the prisoner come before thee; according to the greatness of thy power preserve thou those that are appointed to die;
Psa 79:12 And render unto our neighbours sevenfold into their bosom their reproach, wherewith they have reproached thee, O Lord.
Psa 79:13 So we thy people and sheep of thy pasture will give thee thanks for ever: we will shew forth thy praise to all generations.
Thanks all!
G.Driggs
grapehound:
Hi Gary,
I may be a bit off kilter here,(it has been known!), but I have been following this thread
and being an odd ball, I started seeing another kind of angle here.
I've always been fascinated by how His word is constructed.
It seems to me that God doesn't put anything together by chance and remembering Ray's teaching regarding the " multilayering of prophecy", I noticed this.
If there is any milage in this I'd be grateful if someone with a greater understanding than me,(which is most !) could expound on it. If I've totally missed the bus here, I apologise in advance.
Rev 11:6 " The power to shut Heaven..." seems to refer to Elijah, echoed in 1 Kings 17:1
and Moses, " Power over waters, to turn them to blood." echoed in Exodus 7:19
Elijah is mentioned before Moses, who preceded him.
I wondered why they are not mentioned in chronological order.
I also understand that God doesn't do anything by chance, so there must be a reason for this.
I love searching out the meaning of names.
The order of names in Rev 11: 6
Elijah = God of Jehovah
Moses = Drawn out or Rescued
So we have “God of Jehovah + Rescued” = Yahushua , Y’shua = Jesus
Interestingly, for me anyway!, is that these two are seen by Peter and the sons of Zebedee in the transfiguration with Jesus. (Mark 9:4)
Also Malachi 4:5 “ I will send you Elijah ………….. Before the coming of the Great and Dreadful day of the Lord.”
Any thoughts on this?
Grape
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