Jeremiah 31:9

[jingle52]

Hello Everyone,
Can anyone explain the following verse please?

Jer. 31:9 - They will come with weeping; they will pray as I bring them back. I will lead them beside streams of water on a level path where they will not stumble, because I am Israel's father and Ephraim is my firstborn son.

I know that Ephraim was the second of Joseph's sons and that he's father (Jacob/Israel) gave him his blessings as befits a firstborne which actually belonged to Manasseh.

Why did God call Ephraim His firstborne? What spirtual meaning lies behind these words??
Thanks.

Gods's Blessings

[mharrell08]

Hello Everyone,
Can anyone explain the following verse please?

Jer. 31:9 - They will come with weeping; they will pray as I bring them back. I will lead them beside streams of water on a level path where they will not stumble, because I am Israel's father and Ephraim is my firstborn son.

I know that Ephraim was the second of Joseph's sons and that he's father (Jacob/Israel) gave him his blessings as befits a firstborne which actually belonged to Manasseh.

Why did God call Ephraim His firstborne? What spirtual meaning lies behind these words??
Thanks.

Gods's Blessings

Hello Jingle52,

Take a look at Genesis chapter 48 and keep in mind the parable of our Lord: The first shall be last, and the last shall be first. Remember, the Lord spoke of bringing forth His 'remnant' in verse 7.


Hope that helps,

Marques

[jingle52]

Thanks Marques,
what does Jacob/Irael mean in
Gen 48:19 which states towards the end of the verse:
but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.Are the Gentiles these nations? Ray expounds in the parable the "rich man and Lazarus that Elieser the servant of Abraham represents the Gentiles.
I am a bit confused, please help me understand!

Also: Why did God call Ephraim His firstborn son?

In John 1:4 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God - This is the Spiritual Firstborn of God the Father Almighty

1 Cor. 15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. He became the first friuts of those who are asleep
I would appreciate some insight into these verses as I don't get it (as usual).
Thanks

[mharrell08]

Thanks Marques,
what does Jacob/Irael mean in
Gen 48:19 which states towards the end of the verse:
but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.Are the Gentiles these nations? Ray expounds in the parable the "rich man and Lazarus that Elieser the servant of Abraham represents the Gentiles.
I am a bit confused, please help me understand!

And I can't explain it all, in great detail, here on the forum. Genesis Chapter 48 was a beginning point, not the end. You have to keep reading the scriptures and follow the scriptures concerning Ephraim to understand. Isaiah 7 is a good help.

Also: Why did God call Ephraim His firstborn son?

In John 1:4 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God - This is the Spiritual Firstborn of God the Father Almighty

1 Cor. 15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. He became the first friuts of those who are asleep
I would appreciate some insight into these verses as I don't get it (as usual).
Thanks

Because it is symbolic, not literal. Who Ephraim represents is 'begotten anew'. Again, you have to follow the scriptures, mostly in the OT, to understand what Ephraim symbolizes. I'll always tell anyone: if you understand what God is doing with humanity, you know what all the signs/symbolism in the scriptures mean. You may not know 'how' they represent what they do, but you know the final outcome. Rest in that hope.


Hope that helps,

Marques

P.S. If the moderators & elder forum members, including myself, want to cut down on the teaching of doctrine outside of Ray's writings, we have to start with ourselves. This is my attempt at starting that, so please don't think I am avoiding your comments for any personal reasons against you. Keep reading and seeking.

[jingle52]

what doctrines outside of Rays teachings are you referring to?
I know that God is making us in His image and it is a work in progress...
It stands to reason that if I had known the answer to the question I posted I would not have posted it. All I needed was an answer to a question and the spiritual meaning to it.
Anyway, thank you for taking the time to answer me Marques.

[mharrell08]

what doctrines outside of Rays teachings are you referring to?
I know that God is making us in His image and it is a work in progress...
It stands to reason that if I had known the answer to the question I posted I would not have posted it. All I needed was an answer to a question and the spiritual meaning to it.
Anyway, thank you for taking the time to answer me Marques.

Jingle52,

I understand you simply wanted an answer to your question. This specific reference in scripture is not covered by Ray's teaching, so you ask the forum members.

But for anyone to answer you, they would have to teach what 'they believe' this scripture means. This can lead into everyone wanted to explain what 'they believe' a scripture or section of passages mean. When there are conflicting explanations, arguments & debates cause strife. Not to mention the pride that sets in with members.

Also, with certain scriptures, one must take the time to study. There's not always a quick answer to every passage.


Hope you understand,

Marques

[jingle52]

Marques, thank you very much for the clarification! 

There are many referrences to Ephraim in the OT and they can become very confusing, (Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings, Chronicles, Isaiah...) so, you are right that I should study more deeply (trying hard though). In addition to that,  the passage of the first borne piqued my interest.  But will give it a rest for now 

God's Blessings

[Deborah-Leigh]

Jingle52 ~ there's always something to do to keep seeking, searching and enquiring of the Lord.

Take any Scripture, ....take any verse....and you can hold it up against the light of what we are given here freely to discern, sharpen our skills in insight and understanding. Go to the 12 Truths in Understanding the Word of God....[/b]and....God willing,   He may show you something.... It is right to not only receive but to learn to apply the Truths God gives us, and God willing, you receive accomplishment from God to do so!

It is right and proper to seek the Lord and learn how not to depend on others to find Him for you!

Blessings

Arc

[jingle52]

Arc,
thanks, the road is long and hard for some of us and that is why when in doubt, or even clueless, I tend to come to the forum for help!
I always appreciate and learn from other posts and the answeres given - if I don't seem to contribute on a regular basis, it means I have nothing to add which has not already been said. This forum is a place to fellowship and learn from and the disecernment of those who already have God's Spirit is encouraging to say the least.
I hope you all have a Blessed, peaceful day in the Lord our God!