Free will?

Started by waarheid77, October 24, 2010, 04:13:07 PM

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waarheid77

October 24, 2010, 04:13:07 PM
"We can will ourselves to act, but we can not will ourselves to will." Albert Einstien

Free will is part of the illusion of seperateness

Ken

Dave in Tenn

#1
October 24, 2010, 08:28:17 PM
Even if we can will ourselves to act, we cannot will ourselves to act right. 

Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Deborah-Leigh

#2
October 25, 2010, 05:02:00 AM Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 05:15:10 AM by Arcturus
Psa 22:29  All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

Hi Ken

As smart as Albert was...he got the first part of that quotation WRONG...

This is edifying to me.  As brainy or intelligent as God decides to make any human...including Solomon with all his Wisdom...it is not ENOUGH to outsmart God....even Solomon WITH his Wisdom...couldn't OBEY God...and did not please Him.... :(....

Your post is a great catalyst Ken, to really believe what God says is TRUE.....God doesn't mince His Words. He means it! What is so extraordinary...almost funny...is that God doesn't let things get out of hand in our imaginations of what would happen if we had no controls to our will....just look at the world around us....to see what would happen and does happen when we have our own way....now I feel like a kitten who got the knitting!! ;D :D Lil.....just now Grape is going to come in here and see what's going on!!!! ;D :D :)....

We can not, by God's Decree, Wisdom, Knowledge, Power and Love, we CAN NOT will ourselves to do anything! :D :)...NON can keep alive his own soul...much less decide when the heart should expire or begin beating. That's a very good thing that God puts the limit on us like He does.  8) :)

God controls it all!..us all...even the kitten and the Einstein that should falsely believe that a man can will anything to happen and go out and say so!!!ooops :D ;D :) ;D....that the scriptures might be fulfilled

1Co 3:19  For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. ...Albert will wake up one day...to the deafening roar of our laughter maybe...and God shall speak to him...... 8) :) ...........

Things can get side splittingly funny....hold your sides... 8) ;D :D :D

Blessings


Arc

Kat

#3
October 25, 2010, 08:03:35 AM Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 08:06:02 AM by Kat

It seems to me that maybe Einstein did know a bit about 'no free will' as the first part of his statement gives man's perception "we can will ourselves to act." "BUT" second part of his statement indicates the truth "we can NOT will ourselves to will.'

Here is a statement I found that he made and even though he was not a believer, I do believe he had some basic knowledge of truth, just from intelligently observing the world.


A question to Einstein about religion. Do you believe in God? "I'm not an atheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the language in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws, but only dimly understand these laws."

Is this a Jewish concept of God? Einstein replies "I am a determinist. I do not believe in free will. Jews believe in free will. They believe that man shapes his own life. I reject that doctrine. In that respect I am not a Jew." (Einstein His Life and Universe, Walter Isaacson, p. 386).

Interesting, this brillant man could not deny what was very evidently observable in the world.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Deborah-Leigh

#4
October 25, 2010, 08:59:23 AM Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 09:03:58 AM by Arcturus

That is a beautiful quotation Kat...

No offense meant towards Albert...

One of the quotes I most admire that Al. said is this

You can live in one of two ways only.

As if nothing is a miracle or as if EVERYTHING is a Miracle!

So ~ please accept my bravado Albert... :D ;D :) you really were a work of God's wonderous creation showcasing sensitive regard for the laws of our God  8) :)....

Kat...as I read what you quoted Einstein as having said quote : "We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws, but only dimly understand these laws."..it made me come to this

1Co 13:12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

I believe Albert might agree... :).... then I saw THIS! 8)

But we all.... :).....

2Co 3:18  But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Blessings

Arc

Marky Mark

#5
October 25, 2010, 08:59:53 AM
Quote
QuoteYour post is a great catalyst Ken, to really believe what God says is TRUE.....God doesn't mince His Words. He means it!
Arc
Jer 5:21  Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:

Jer 51:15  He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heaven by his understanding.

Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

1Co 1:19  As God says in the Scriptures, "I will destroy the wisdom of all who claim to be wise. I will confuse those who think they know so much."
1Co 1:20  What happened to those wise people? What happened to those experts in the Scriptures? What happened to the ones who think they have all the answers? Didn't God show that the wisdom of this world is foolish?
1Co 1:21  God was wise and decided not to let the people of this world use their wisdom to learn about him. Instead, God chose to save only those who believe the foolish message we preach.

Psa 19:1   The heavens are sounding the glory of God; the arch of the sky makes clear the work of his hands.
Psa 19:2  Day after day it sends out its word, and night after night it gives knowledge.
Psa 19:3  There are no words or language; their voice makes no sound.


Peace...Mark

Deborah-Leigh

#6
October 25, 2010, 09:09:55 AM
1Co 1:21  God was wise and decided not to let the people of this world use their wisdom to learn about him.

That's KEY Marky Mark!....NOT to let the people of this world use THEIR wisdom to learn ABOUT HIM!....

Blessings

Arc

grapehound

#7
October 25, 2010, 12:47:14 PM Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 12:54:21 PM by grapehound
(The intrepid hound staggers out of the rhubarb patch, covered in dirt, trips over himself and lands on his back.)

What's going on here?
Take that knitting off that kitten!

What's this?


"Albert will wake up one day...to the deafening roar of our laughter maybe...and God shall speak to him.." ?  ??? :) :D Bbbbbbaaaaaaaaa!!  ;D ;D ;D

Priceless Arc Priceless !!   8)

May I quote you?

I'll just put that in my diary.   :D


(Grape limps back into the rhubarb patch, wiping his eyes and muttering,' Why can't I come up with stuff like that?' )

PS!! I took too long to post this and between me finding it hilarious AND posting, it had suddenly gone all philosophical  :-X :-X
(I still thought it was a cracking good line though!  ;D)

grapehound

#8
October 25, 2010, 01:05:09 PM Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 01:14:02 PM by grapehound
Einstein:

"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life. How different, for instance, is the impression which we receive from an account of legendary heroes of antiquity like Theseus. Theseus and other heroes of his type lack the authentic vitality of Jesus.”

No man can deny the fact that Jesus existed."

grapehound

#9
October 25, 2010, 01:21:25 PM Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 01:25:42 PM by grapehound
Mahatma Ghandi's take on Jesus:



"I shall say to the Hindus that your life will be incomplete unless you reverentially study the teachings of Jesus... Make this world the kingdom of God and his righteousness and everything will be added unto you. I tell you that if you will understand, appreciate, and act up to the spirit of this passage, you won't need to know what place Jesus or any other teacher occupies in your heart."

Which just shows us, 'great scientist' or 'great soul', how darkened the 'wisdom' of the flesh, without His Spirit.

Grape

Deborah-Leigh

#10
October 25, 2010, 02:30:51 PM Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 02:38:15 PM by Arcturus
...kitten out of the wool....purr purrr.... :)

I know that in the Koran, it says that a Muslim should believe that Jesus is the Son of God. I was to bring this explaination to a very devout Muslim....it was a beautiful exchange that wrapped me up in an extraordinary moment.........."If Allah is God the Father, then to refuse the Son is to dishonor the Father'".... I implored him....that was the gist of the explanation to the core...

The beauty God prepared to deliver this little line of thread to this "high and holy Sikh" all dressed in white.... the way it happened was just too beautiful...Sure we know that Allah is a pagan god of a pagan religion...at its very false heart and hardened charred hub....yet God...who can deny Him if He chooses to show up inconveniently as He did in each of our lives...dragging us out of Babylon. Who wanted to go with Him? Non. Not one.  :( :o yet this particular person ( the Sikh ~ of all people!!! You'd think God would select better... :D...no offense to God...God knows exactly when where and to who He elects He will be heard! Deafness and blindness are no barriors to Our God! 8)) to whom God directed His Wisdom to be heard, was so receptive!............ 8) :).............gentle................respecting................kind................I've never seen him again! :D :)

God drags US...You and I......that's the operative word for US.....We leave by God's compulsion and Spirit working against our carnal desires and carnal knowledge, and causing us to go where we do not wish to go...into the arms of Peace and Love by His mathematics....the reckoning of our Great God all Mighty and ever Wise Father, creator of all mankind and above all that is man  8)....It is the Christain Babylonian who's wrath you have to dodge! ;D :D :) ;D

God gets what He wants ~ Ray eloquently and flatly informs us...God doesn't make weak wishes!! 8) ;D :)

Blessings

Arc

Phil3:10

#11
October 25, 2010, 02:36:41 PM
To all,
You guys really hit the nail on the head. It is all about HIM, JESUS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD, and the SAVIOR of all. HE alone is our hope and HE alone is worthy of all praise, honor and worship.
In HIM,
Phil3:10

grapehound

#12
October 25, 2010, 02:40:47 PM Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 02:43:12 PM by grapehound
Blessings Phil3:10  :)

Amen Arc, another 'bullseye'!

Deborah-Leigh

#13
October 25, 2010, 02:42:53 PM


That's right  8) Phil 3 :10....anyone only gets to the Father through and by The Son!!! and only because of the Father, can anyone go to His Beautiful Son!

Blessings dear brothers Phil and Grape :)

Arc
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