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Revelations 1:7

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octoberose:
Maybe you can help me with something (you all almost always have answers I can't see). I was in Bible study the other day and a little while before I had told the leader that dead people are dead until the resurrection, which she listened to without any negativity. Then in our class someone brought up Revelations 1:7 which says, "Look, he is coming with the clouds, and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him."  Well, I don't know exactly what to think of this and I had never given it any thought before. Of course, we ALL have pierced him, but in the context of these verses it seems they are speaking of the people who actually put him on the cross. I had always envisioned Jesus returning and people rise from the dead- but this shows him coming in the clouds, not yet here, and the dead that pierced him are seeing him right then. Am I reading into this something that is not here?
The reference in my NIV takes me to Daniel 7:13. It's a beautiful passage, and once again says that ALL nations and peoples of every language worshipped him. Sounds like salvation for all to me!
 

G. Driggs:
We know from Ray's expounding of the Scriptures that everything in Revelation is signified (to make known by signs and symbols), so maybe that verse isn't literal. No doubt all will see Him, but that verse does not say when. We need at least two witnesses to establish and or explain a truth.

Here is a short copy and paste from:

'Church Heresy Came Long Before Bible Errors'
[The Lake of Fire - PART VII THE SEVEN SYMBOLIC CHURCHES OF REVELATION]

@ http://www.bible-truths.com/lake7.html

Nowhere in Revelation does it say that every prophecy in the book will be fulfilled, quickly in any one generation—either past, present, or future. It is not just in one end-time generation that Revelation is fulfilled quickly! NO! It is fulfilled "quickly" in each and every person who "READS AND UNDERSTANDS" this prophecy, through all generations, even though there is an eventual culmination at the lake of fire and final white throne judgment.
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I have also heard Ray say something like this book was only for God's Elect to understand at this time. Also if Jesus is living His life in you or me then everything written in Revelation has to happen in our lives. We will pretty much experience every prophecy written therein, through judgment now or later.

Sincerely hope this helps

G.Driggs

Deborah-Leigh:
Excellent information G.Driggs!

Hi Octoberose

You are exactly correct. The two Scriptures you present do witness the same event together. They prophesy of a time when Christ’s Reign shall cover the earth.

The confirmation of this is in the next verse of Daniel:

Dan 7:14  And to Him is given Dominion, and Glory, and a Kingdom, and ALL peoples, nations, and languages do serve Him, His Dominion is a Dominion age-during, that passeth not away, and His Kingdom that which is not destroyed.

You are seeing correctly. SALVATION IS FOR ALL!  8) ;D   

Blessings dear sister
Deborah

Kat:

Hi Octoberose,

Christ returns and the Elect will be resurrected and meet/join with Him in the air. They are in the 'first' resurrection, so they come first. But there is also a resurrection of all the dead back to life, at that time.

Acts 24:15  I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.
(All these Scriptures speak of one resurrection Mat 22:31; Act 17:32; Act 23:6; Act 24:21; 1Co 15:12, 13, 21, 42; Heb 6:2)

There is "a resurrection" or one resurrection for both, "the just and unjust." So Christ first collects His Elect/Saints and then continues to earth and where else would the resurected physical people have been placed than on the physcial earth and so "every eye will see Him," and He and the Saints will rule over these nations.

This is from the 'Rapture' paper and it should help your understandng on this.

http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm ---------------

We can learn something remarkable from the way that God uses the word "meet" in this Scripture.

"Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air." (I Thes. 4:17).

In this verse as in three others, God uses the Greek word apatesis which is translated "to meet." It is distinguished from a half dozen other Greek words which are variously translated, "meet,’ "meet with," "meeting," "meeting with," etc. The Greek word apatesis, is, however, used only three other times.
v

Now I am almost sure that I can hear faint protests in the distance from objecting rapturists. Notwithstanding, based on all the usage's of this word apatesis [to meet], and we read them all, when someone went out to meet someone else, where did they always go next? That’s right, back where they came from. So if God is consistent with the use of this word, then when the saints of I Thes. 4 meet the Lord in the air, they will then return with Christ back to the EARTH!
v

Let us be clear, that the "day of the Lord" is the time period of Christ’s return to this earth to punish Babylon the Great and to pour out His righteous indignation on her (and on those nations who follow and worship her) for her evil crimes of inhumanity and blasphemy.
v

"... even as the lightning is coming out from the east and is appearing as far as the west, thus shall be the PRESENCE of the Son of Mankind" (Matt. 24:27).

Nothing is as bright as lightning--not even the sun. No one will know when our Lord comes, but when He appears, everyone on earth will know!

"... then all the tribes of the land shall grieve, and they shall see the Son of Mankind coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much GLORY"! (Mat. 24:30).

"Power," "Glory," and "LIGHTNING" have no fellowship with "darkness," "evil" and "gloom"!
v

Jesus said He was going to His Father IN HEAVEN to prepare a place for His apostles. Peter said that Christ,

"... regenerates us into a living expectation, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from among the dead, for the enjoyment of an allotment incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, KEPT IN THE HEAVENS FOR YOU ..." (I Pet. 1:4-5).

And yet we know that Christ brings these treasures BACK TO EARTH.

Why do we think it is any different for the Gentiles? It is not different.

"... we have a building of God, a house not made by hands, eonian, IN THE HEAVENS." (II Cor. 5:1).

But are we unlike the Jews in that we really GO to heaven to receive our treasures? NO! Next verse: "For in this also we are groaning, longing to be dressed in our habitation which is OUT of heaven ..."

There are so many Scriptures like this that contradict the rapture theory. Look at this one,

"The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord’s; but the EARTH hath He given to the children of men" (Psalm 115:6). One more, "... for we are your glorying (even as you also are ours) in THE DAY OF OUR LORD JESUS" (II Cor. 1:14).

Not in the "rapture," but in "the day of our Lord."
v

When Christ returns to set up His kingdom on earth, He brings the place of authority or rulership that He has prepared for the apostles with Him so that "... where I am, YOU ALSO MAY BE" (John 14:3). During Christ’s reign on earth His apostles will be WITH THE LORD.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat

lauriellen:
kat, i am totally confused. i thought the rest of the dead 'lived not' until the thousand years were finished, not ressurected at the second coming?

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