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Author Topic: the father of lies actually speaks truths??  (Read 2099 times)

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wisdom

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the father of lies actually speaks truths??
« on: November 17, 2010, 10:34:03 AM »

Did satan lie in the beginning? Did he tell a lie in the entirety of the bible? In Geneisis3:4 satan actually speaks truth of the things that would happen if eve ate of the forbidden tree and this is confirmed by God in the 22nd verse of chapter 3. During the temptation of Christ, did satan lie about what he possessed or about what he would give Christ if he yielded to his temptation? Throughout the bible I see how satan deceives and manipulates but does that ALONE make him a liar? I know that Jesus says he is a liar and murderer from the beginning but does that mean that HE "lied" or "murdered" from the beginning or does it mean that murderers and liars come from him alone? Just a question that popped in my head while reading a recent post. I appreciate ALL comments and may God continue to bless us all.
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Samson

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Re: the father of lies actually speaks truths??
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2010, 11:13:29 AM »

Did satan lie in the beginning? Did he tell a lie in the entirety of the bible? In Geneisis3:4 satan actually speaks truth of the things that would happen if eve ate of the forbidden tree and this is confirmed by God in the 22nd verse of chapter 3. During the temptation of Christ, did satan lie about what he possessed or about what he would give Christ if he yielded to his temptation? Throughout the bible I see how satan deceives and manipulates but does that ALONE make him a liar? I know that Jesus says he is a liar and murderer from the beginning but does that mean that HE "lied" or "murdered" from the beginning or does it mean that murderers and liars come from him alone? Just a question that popped in my head while reading a recent post. I appreciate ALL comments and may God continue to bless us all.


Hi Wisdom,

I copied & pasted a few excerpts of Ray's article: Lake of Fire, part 2 regarding Satan, Sin, Accountability, etc. Keep in mind that when Deceives someone else, even though there is some element of Truth, it's still Lying. Example: If I owe you $300.00 and the next day I make arrangements to meet with You to give You the $300.00 and on that following Day(Arrangement Day), I call You and say: " I have Money for You and meet with You in the Afternoon and only give You $280.00, based on that prior statement(" I Have Money for You."), some might conclude that I didn't Lie, because I didn't say that I had $300.00, but I was trying to DECEIVE YOU(Truth mixed with falsehood) like Satan. It's similar to what Ananias & Sapphira did by trying to deceive the Apostle Peter regarding the purchase price for the Land they sold for Contribution Money.

And so it was GOD, and none other than GOD, Who intended from the beginning that Satan and man SIN! That does not make God a sinner, for a sin is a "mistake," a "missing of the mark," a "falling short of the glory of God," and God has NEVER MADE A MISTAKE OR FALLEN SHORT OF TOTAL PERFECTION! God knew what He was doing and how things would turn out BEFORE He created ANYTHING! "Declaring the end from the beginning..." (Isa. 46:10). Satan and man are "accountable" for their sins, because they sinned willingly from their heart, but God takes "responsibility" for their sins, and therefore had already provided them a Saviour BEFORE the foundation of the world:

"In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one UNTO SATAN for DESTRUCTION of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" (I Cor. 5:4-5).  It is SATAN who was created from his very beginning to be "the WASTER to DESTROY" menís flesh (carnal mindedness) so that they learn not to blaspheme (I Tim. 1:20). Satan started with Adam and Eve and he isnít finished YET!

#

I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded you, though you have not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there none beside Me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, AND CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do ALL [even the creation of evil and even the creation of Satan] THESE THINGS" (Isaiah 45:5-7).

Satan is evil, God created evil, God CREATED SATAN!
#

"He that commits sin is of the DEVIL [Gk: Adversary, Satan] for the Devil SINS FROM THE BEGINNING. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the WORKS of the Devil" (I John 3:8). So was it AFTER a supposed "Lucifer archangel" metamorphosed into Satan that he sinned, or did Satan the Adversary sin "from the BEGINNING?

Satan transforms himself(gives an appearance) into an Angel of light just like His Ministers(Religious Leaders) in order to deceive people. Some element of Truth is usually included in this deception, but the truth is distorted or leaves out important details. Read How Ray illustrates this with another excerpt from the same Lake of Fire part 2. Read Below !

THEY SPEAK WITH FORKED TONGUE

Most all Christian theologians would claim to believe the first statement of Scriptural Truth that I present below, especially when I cite a Scripture verse with it, but they will then contradict and refuse to teach the second statement of Truth. Here are a few examples:

    *

      Do they believe the fire in I Cor.3:15 burns mansí works, but not the man himself? Yes.

      But do they teach that this same fire in Rev.20:15 also burns works, not the man? No.
    *

      Do they believe that God is the Creator of ALL? Yes.

      But do they teach that God created EVIL as He says in (Isa. 45:7)? No.
    *

      Do they believe that God is absolutely and totally sovereign (Eph. 1:11)? Yes.

      But do they teach that God exercises sovereignty over manís supposed "free" will? No.
    *

      Do they believe that Jesus Christ IS the Saviour of the whole world (I Jn 4:14)? Yes.

      But do they teach that Jesus Christ will SAVE the whole world? No.
    *

      Do they believe that presently Christ only has immortality (I Tim. 6:16)? Yes.

      But do they teach the truth therefore that menís souls are mortal and not immortal? No.
    *

      Do they believe that the original manuscripts of Godís Word were inerrant? Yes.

      But do they teach us that the King James translation, which they say is "inerrant" has gone through THOUSANDS of error corrections since 1611? No.
    *

      Do they believe that the soul that sins shall DIE (Ezek. 18:4)? Yes.

      But do they teach that souls of deceased sinners are actually DEAD? No.
    *

      Do they believe there are many cults today that need exposing? Yes.

      But do they teach that Christendom, by its OWN definitions, is also a cult? No.
    *

      Do they believe that Sodom is "suffering the vengeance of eternal [aeonian] fire? Yes.

      But do they teach that Sodom will be restored to their former estate (Ezek. 16:55)? No.
    *

      Do they believe in a future resurrection of dead people back to life (John 5:29)? Yes.

      But do they teach that a resurrection is imperative for dead people to live again? No.
    *

      Do they believe the first half of I Cor. 15:22 that "For as in Adam ALL die?" Yes.

      But do they teach the last half, "even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive?" No.
    *

      Do they believe that "...the end of the world [Gk: aion -- age]" ends in Mat. 24:3? Yes.

      But do they teach that this same "aion -- age" in Matt. 25:41 & 46 will also end. No.
    *

      Do they believe that Jn 3:13 & Acts 2:34 are truthful Scripture (II Tim. 3:16)? Yes.

      But do they teach this truth that "NO man," including David, has gone to heaven? No.
    *

      Do they believe ALL God purposed, spoke, and willed (Isa. 46:10-11), He will do? Yes.

      But do they teach that Godís "will" to save all, I Tim. 2:4, etc., will be done? No.
    *

      Do they believe that Satan lied when he told Eve, "thou shalt not surely die?" Yes.

      But do they teach the truth that sinners really do DIE at death as God has stated? No.
    *

      Do they believe that the Apocryphal books do not belong in the Bible? Yes.

      But do they teach us that the 1611 so-called "inerrant" King James Bible contained fourteen such books, including "Tobit," "Judith," "The idol Bel and the Dragon"? No.
    *

      Do they believe that Christ is totally responsibility for our salvation? Yes.

      But do they teach that "no man can" come to Christ of himself (John 6:44)? No.
    *

      Do they believe that Satan is the greatest sinner of all? Yes.

      But do they teach Jn. 8:44 which states that Satan "sinned from the beginning?" No.
    *

      Do they believe Christ really died for the sins of the world? Yes.

      But do they teach that Jesus Christ was dead when they placed Him in the tomb? No.
    *

      Do they believe the many Scriptures that liken death to "sleep?" Yes.

      But do they teach that dead people are unconscious, "sleeping" till resurrection? No.
    *

      Do they believe that the last enemy to be destroyed [Gk: abolished] is death? Yes.

      But do they teach that ALL death, including the second death, will be abolished? No.
    *

      Do they believe that all things are possible with God (Mark 10:27)? Yes.

      But do they teach that it is possible for God to save nonbelievers after they die? No.
    *

      Do they believe that every tongue in heaven and earth will confess Jesus as LORD? Yes.

      But do they teach that the Holy Spirit inspires this sincere voluntary act (I Cor. 12:3)? No.
    *

      Do they believe that good and evil are both in the same tree of knowledge? Yes

      But do they teach that good and evil both come from the same root source? No.
    *

      Do they believe that God absolutely "knows all" (I John 3:20)? Yes.

      But do they teach that God knows in advance ALL who will reject Christ? No.
    *

      Do they believe that Godís love will never fail (I Cor. 13:8)? Yes.

      But do they teach that Godís love will never fail in saving the world He loves? No.
    *

      Do they believe the apostles spoke in foreign languages in Acts 2:4-11? Yes.

      But do they teach that of the hundreds of thousands who claim to speak in tongues today, not one of them can speak in multiple languages which they did not already study? No.
    *

      Do they believe that the masses did not understand Christís parables (Mat. 13:13)? Yes.

      But do they teach that Christ purposely didnít want them to understand, (Vs. 14-17)? No.
    *

      Do they believe the Old Covenant contained the Ten Commandments (Deut.4:12)? Yes.

      But do they teach a New Covenant which contains a much higher law (Heb. 8:8-9)? No.
    *

      Do they believe that God created all the spirits and messengers of heaven? Yes.

      But do they teach that God also created Satan who was always His adversary? No.
    *

      Do they believe that loving our enemies means doing good and not evil to them? Yes.

      But do they teach that God will never subject His enemies to eternal torture and evil? No.

                          Hope this Helps, Samson.
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: the father of lies actually speaks truths??
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2010, 11:41:16 AM »

Jesus answered this question in the following which might apply :

Mat 7:16  Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Satan isn't like the yin and yang with a little bit of good in him. NO. Satan is by nature, an instrument of God Who is Good. God uses evil for His good plans and purposes.

Satan has no claim on anything that is Good of God. Likewise, us humans, have no claim on God for anything good that we are or do! All good is of and from God. That applies to Satan too.  :D ;)

Blessings
Arc
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mcmiller

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Re: the father of lies actually speaks truths??
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2010, 12:46:56 PM »

Some definitions regarding us stick with us for the duration of our lives.  Examples:  If I commit rape I am a rapist even if I never rape again after the first time.  If I murder I am a murderer even if I never murder again.  If I lie, I am a liar even if I never lie again or mix truth with lies or only tell an occassional lie.
So is it with Satan.

Mark
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Joel

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Re: the father of lies actually speaks truths??
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2010, 10:09:04 PM »

Hi Wisdom
In most of if not all the accounts of Satan through out the Bible, his purpose is to get someone to disobey God. In Genesis to Revelations, in the present day he is still up to his old ways.
I don't see that he has changed, and never will until God says it's enough.

Joel
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wisdom

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Re: the father of lies actually speaks truths??
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2010, 10:38:08 AM »

Thanks all of your replies were helpful.
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