moving on into the profit subject. shortly.

[acomplishedartis]

I would just like to take a little bit to light, how big the idol of sordid gain-profit is on these present predominating societies.
Beyond rational living expenses. The wish for sordid personal advantage is enormous among citizens. There are Millions, Billions isolated people, locked in relations only where profit is in between. Also even on the internet there is millions, billions of websites that for the way they work, they are mostly about profit.

A forum and a page like this one is different, what bring us together is not even one little wish for profit. If we can have relations that are bounded on something that is spiritually great, then we must be very thankful!
I believe that only until this internet age, there is way more possibilities for bigger groups of spiritual like minders to be together once again.                                        

Does anyone else feel this way?

[longhorn]

Well said my brother.  May God continue to open our Spritual Eyes and Ears as we Live by ( using the full Armor of God) Every word ( Spriitually ) that proceeds from the mouth of God.  Not only must we read and hear ( by grace only ) but we must also keep ( live out ) every word.  For ALL THINGS ARE OUR'S  1 Cor 3: 21-22.   For the time IS AT HAND ( Rev 1:3 ) 

Longhorn

[Samson]

I would just like to take a little bit to light, how big the idol of sordid gain-profit is on these present predominating society.
Beyond rational living expenses. The wish for sordid personal advantage is enormous among citizens. There are Millions, Billions isolated people, locked in relations only where profit is in between. Also even on the internet there is millions, billions of websites that for the way they work, they are mostly about profit.

A forum and a page like this one is different, what bring us together is not even one little wish for profit. If we can have relations that are bounded on something that is spiritually great, then we most be very thankful!
I believe that only until this internet age, there is way more possibilities for bigger groups of spiritual like minders to be together once again.                                       

Does anyone else feel this way?

Yes, My Brother Moises,

The Love of Money is the root of All Evil(injurious things) and because of this Love, many have stabbed themselves with many pains and hurtful desires(1 Tim. 6:9,10). I'm thankful that We have a place of Spiritual retreat, so to speak, to discuss Ray's Teachings, Fellowship, build one another up, share Life's experiences(primarily the Spiritual ones), occasionally have Phone conversations with Forum Members, as I do and even occasionally have the opportunity to meet and have informal Bible Discussions.

You mention these factual points: the idol of sordid gain-profit is on these present predominating society.  Beyond rational living expenses. The wish for sordid personal advantage is enormous among citizens.

Yes the above Two Points are the reality of American Society and for those that don't have the financial means at the present time, they have that DESIRE. Those that are spiritually minded through God's spirit are influenced by 1Tim. 6:7,8( We brought nothing into this world, so be content with food and clothing-paraphrased) and this Scripture is the reality too, just like the above.

                          Thanks for Posting this Thread, Samson.

[acomplishedartis]

This topic can easily lead to self righteous or over righteous thoughts and concepts.  God's poor and how being poor is favorable to God is a favorite subject of many false religious teachers.

If I buy something for $1 and sell it for $2 (to a willing buyer), then I have made a 100% profit of $1.  If I do this a billion times, then I am a billionaire.  How is this a sin?  Where in the scriptures does it teach that being rich, of and by itself, is a sin?  Poor people cannot give material things to others because they are poor!  Why is it a good thing to be poor?

The Father is filthy rich.  Jesus said that He (Jesus) works because His Father works.  By working hard and saving, you can become wealthy (if the Father wills it) like the Father.  There is nothing righteous about being poor.  Or fat, dumb, ugly, and ignorant for that matter.

What really got Jesus angry, what really ticked Him off, were self righteous, hypocritical, proud, false religious teachers who thought that they represented God.  Not making a profit.

Also, it could not.

I would not correct anything you said.
I just hope that nobody might think that I want to lead this post into support any over righteous thoughts and concepts or that I agree with the other topics that you talked against.



Now. Moving again into the profit subject as an idol.

This is for sure:

That when we are waiting and wishing to be economical excessively rich (no matter for what), we have been made week enough to fall

into the temptation of avarice, to take us to the point that money (with all the power that it has on this place) is the only thing that we

are really looking for, taking us to more sick desires and deceptions. This desire for what we can come to consider being economical

richness is something that ''poor'' and ''rich'' share. It doesn't really have to do too much with material possessions; it is the mental state
for richness.

And it is obvious that so many avarice and corruption in our actual society and in our selves have to do with money and its love for it.
Either way it is all part of a necessary process and this process have a great purpose.

I guess it is all about our motivations  and ''The only way that we will ever have enough is considering it like that - right now'' Is to be  grateful with what we already have and with what God has already showed to us.

[servias]

Many good things have come from the inspiration of Profit.  Like , medicine, food production, living conditions...God's will, his plan.  Obviously some profit is immoral like porn, etc.  But still this is God's creation - HIS.  What we ultimately learn from all forms of profit is on purpose for a purpose.  We all are pieces to this puzzle that God created.  If its a sin to have more than we need than we are all guilty....we all have computers, electricity, etc.  None of which are necessities.  I have been struggling with this very topic until recently.  I have concluded that all is of Jesus and we cannot change what is.  We can only embrace him and he will lead us in our life.

Dan

[Deborah-Leigh]

It is excellent to see the truth of the fact that most relationships in this wicked age, have profit, not prophet, as the adhesive in the relationships of carnal man. It is the design of God for humanity to experience the destitute realms of spiritual poverty.

Indeed we seek His Kingdom that has no schism, division or rejection of any of the all embodying Truth of God in all. His Kingdom is within!

The condition of spiritual strong delusion, in America, is a phenomenon that God elects for us all to endure, experience and suffer. No matter what the physical manifestation of wealth is externally, internally the Truth of God prevails ~ as first the natural then the spiritual ~  is an order of God, designed for everyone, not just Americans!

To have a heart and mind that is Christ's, is the real wealth, not of this world, but of His Kingdom.

What the Lord is putting in our hearts to desire, is Godly contentment in this world and wicked age we all live in. 1Ti 6:6  Of course, godliness with contentment does bring a great profit.  

We, are of ourselves, are unable to accomplish anything good. Once we have been blessed to repent, then God begins His process of conforming our minds and hearts to His Mind and Heart, Ways, Thoughts and Purposes. The Goodness of God, to do just that, we can rely on!

Blessings dear brothers
Arc

[acomplishedartis]

Many good things have come from the inspiration of Profit.  Like , medicine, food production, living conditions...God's will, his plan.  Obviously some profit is immoral like porn, etc.  

Yes they have. This post is not talking about Profit alone, but 'sordid profit as an idol'.  You bring three examples where it can be moral and inmoral profit in between. If we start to generalize examples with out enough context and specification we indeed will lead into over righteous thoughts.

On inmoral profit, I would add Christendom on the top of the list, or bring it along with your example and call it spiritual pornography.

But still this is God's creation - HIS.  What we ultimately learn from all forms of profit is on purpose for a purpose.  We all are pieces to this puzzle that God created.  

Yes it is all part of God's world!

If its a sin to have more than we need than we are all guilty....we all have computers, electricity, etc.  None of which are necessities.  I have been struggling with this very topic until recently.

The think is that to really know what we really need is not as easy as we think. What we can tent to think to be our necessities could be wrong.
There is too many conditions and geographical circumstances that influence our economy, our work and our profit.
we can do the best with what life has bring us, and try to be content.

Regarding (1) Computers and (2)electricity and (3) ect...?? You could easily start to generalize examples with out enough context and specifications again. And it is understandable, We love to generalize! Because we feel overwhelmed to have to research each subject by our selves, and take the time to assimilate each subject as best as we know that we can. (of course this takes much time and I guess is part of the process of maturing)

Inside of our basic necessities there is need for communication, I have seen a few on the history of computers, the main ideology behind its creation is hard structuralism, witch contradicts free-will. I would tell more, but I don't want to move from the main subject. Also to ask our selves, WHAT, WHY, WHERE, and HOW helps. (I remember there is emails where Ray respond subjects of this kind; where people ask if it's okay to have a house) Anyway, the point is that if you don't feel comfortable with computers or electricity (or whatever you mean by 'etc.'), I encourage you to make your own researchs, and judge the issues your self. So that you can use your computer with clean conscious and conviction. (and the same for the etc. subjects you had in mind)

I have concluded that all is of Jesus and we cannot change what is.  We can only embrace him and he will lead us in our life.
Dan

I guess, we all are in agreement!

[acomplishedartis]

It is excellent to see the truth of the fact that most relationships in this wicked age, have profit, not prophet, as the adhesive in the relationships of carnal man. It is the design of God for humanity to experience the destitute realms of spiritual poverty.

Indeed we seek His Kingdom that has no schism, division or rejection of any of the all embodying Truth of God in all. His Kingdom is within!

The condition of spiritual strong delusion, in America, is a phenomenon that God elects for us all to endure, experience and suffer. No matter what the physical manifestation of wealth is externally, internally the Truth of God prevails ~ as first the natural then the spiritual ~  is an order of God, designed for everyone, not just Americans!

To have a heart and mind that is Christ's, is the real wealth, not of this world, but of His Kingdom.

What the Lord is putting in our hearts to desire, is Godly contentment in this world and wicked age we all live in. 1Ti 6:6  Of course, godliness with contentment does bring a great profit.  

We, are of ourselves, are unable to accomplish anything good. Once we have been blessed to repent, then God begins His process of conforming our minds and hearts to His Mind and Heart, Ways, Thoughts and Purposes. The Goodness of God, to do just that, we can rely on!

Blessings dear brothers
Arc

Arcturus, thanks for that words

[Samson]

Hi To all Posters of this Thread,

I don't believe anyone implied that "Being Materially or Physically Rich" was wrong, I know that I didn't mean that. The point expressed was the DESIRE, in itself, especially to the exclusion of Spiritual Desire and Profit. An Individual could be POOR(Materially) and still have an inordinate desire for Material Riches and pursuits using whatever means to attain this, as an example: Cheating, Lying, stealing, deceiving, etc. These individuals whether Rich or Poor will use whatever means to attain Wealth, due to their Desire as expressed at 1Timothy. 6:6-11. People with an inordinate DESIRE for wealth are not likely to be " content with these things," Another example that emphasizes this DESIRE is that during tough Economic times like these, a person could be well off materially and lose their Job or Station in Life as a result of Economic Causes and not be content with their unfortunate situation and proceed to do whatever needs to be done to elevate themselves back to their previous Economic Stature to the exclusion of everything else. What Profit(no pun intended) or benefit is it, if a Man gains the whole world, but loses His Soul or Life. Matt. 16:26.

                              Thanks, Samson.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Samson~

Another way of addressing,  "desire", is perhaps to say that, the cravings of the senses, after worldly ostentations of life, are of the world, and that too shall pass.

2Co 5:2  For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:4  For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Blessings brother
Arc

[acomplishedartis]

Hi Samson.
Yes, nobody has implied that "Being Materially or Physically Rich" was wrong. As Arcturus said it so clear; it is ''the cravings of the senses, after worldly ostentations of life'', that is what is wrong. And obviously these is nothing to be surprised about; it is just a simple consequence of how our carnal minds work.

However, maybe you decided to make a clarification because a few assumptions that where said on one of the first replies by John from Kentucky.

A few assuptions that where predicted since the opening of these topic. Yet, no one had bring this specific assuptions. And I don't think that somebody would. (And so far, by the replies already being showed, I had already been confirmed on my believes respecting the subjects at hand and also had learn from others):

If I buy something for $1 and sell it for $2 (to a willing buyer), then I have made a 100% profit of $1.  If I do this a billion times, then I am a billionaire.  How is this a sin?  Where in the scriptures does it teach that being rich, of and by itself, is a sin?  Poor people cannot give material things to others because they are poor!  Why is it a good thing to be poor?

I guess this depends on what you buy, and why you buy it, and how you sell it and why you sell it.

I really doubt that somebody now would come and say that being reach by itself (like because an inheritance or a great gift...) is a sin.

There is nothing righteous about being poor. 

Maybe in other forums or somewhere else they could come to say that there is something righteous by being poor by itself.



---

Anyway, at what point do we become rich and what is being poor? On many cases, for somebody you could be rich, and for others you can be poor, and in other places you could be seen as miserable with the same things and we have the whole world with all their social classes, cultures, types of living and economies to prove this to us. Also Rich's are not really the ones whom can satisfy more prefabricated necessities, since this are as relative as the concept of physical wealth.

                                                                            What if we would consider others rich or poor on according to what are they really wishing or craving for: Are we rich on greediness? Are we rich in patience? Are we poor in knowledge? Are we poor in contentmet?

                                                                            And Materially; At what point can we really become faithfull and greatfull with the little or with the many that we have? (of course, with the little or many depending on our perspectives), Well, maybe that's part of our personal homework.

Some are judged for being rich and some are judged for being poor, but as it has already being said; Poor and rich can have many things in common. And being rich or poor doesn't make anybody automatically virtuous or not, it is what they do, and how do they behave on the place where they are meant to live.

We came with no money, and we will leave with no money.  Would it have not more sense to stop wishing and desiring to become excessively wealthy of material things and keep on trying to be content with our personal basic necessities? 
But it is not easy to believe that something is wrong, when the majority around us (in our present predominating society) seems to believe that greed is a good thing.

We should never dare to believe that more money (by itself) will bring us more chances to live real piety. These is like and endless maze, a maze full of rats looking for always have More, and more, and more, and more...      .I have been there before.

[servias]

Thanks Samson. I think we are all on the same page with this.  Earning money at all costs (cheating, lying, stealing)  is not desirable in God's eyes, but earning money to support your family and provide an overall positive experience is good in Gods eyes.  I do not think we can personally judge or call out people who on whats right in terms of materialism because we do not know where their heart is.  Unless its obvious that they are cheating, lying, or stealing.   
Dan

[Deborah-Leigh]

The blessing of everything that is wrong is that all wrong IS to be OVERCOME! Without anything being wrong, there cannot be anything to  overcome, or the virtue, supreme and sublime gift of The Over Comer, that is Christ in us.

Joh 16:33  I have spoken these things to you so that you might have peace in Me. In the world you shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer. I have overcome the world.

How else could Paul state :

Php 4:11  Not that I speak according to need, for I have learned to be content in whatever state I am.

Everything in and of the world, is wrong. Therein lies the magnificent awe inspiring Plan of God!

Blessings
Arc