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Parable of the Unforgiving Servant
grapehound:
Be encouraged Foxx ! this is a great thread, thanks.
Every Blessing
Grape
Foxx:
Wow everyone, I am so glad that God was able to show you a truth through something that I have written. And thank you for that Hillsboro! Your mentioning of 1 John 4:18 cleared up another thing myself and a friend were talking about so I learned something just now as well! Thank you again everyone! God Bless!
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: Foxx on February 01, 2011, 12:04:24 PM ---Wow everyone, I am so glad that God was able to show you a truth through something that I have written. And thank you for that Hillsboro! Your mentioning of 1 John 4:18 cleared up another thing myself and a friend were talking about so I learned something just now as well! Thank you again everyone! God Bless!
--- End quote ---
Hi Foxx,
You are very welcome, as I stated earlier topics such as this usually get me motivated to search deeper.
This is in no way saying that I see little merit in so many of the other topics presented, only that my field of insight and interest are often within the narrow peripheral vision of my current state of interest.
Threads that descend into argumentative debating and an obvious lack of any attempt to understand another point of view with a blatant disregard (especially) for others who put time and effort into sharing insight are not uplifting or edifying.
This was a blessing for me.
Peace and thanks,
Joe
Dawidos:
Wow, I like your analysis of this parable very much. Great work, Fox! It's very helpful to divide a parable on parts and make some comments to each of them. I paid especially my attention to the word "until". It's hard to imagine that if humanity thinks torture of prisoners is inhuman and morally wrong, so God has less mercy than us, because he's going to do this for eternity. Of course there is an option of total annihilation (erasing from existence which could be a counterpart to death penalty in the mortal world), but in this case God would have a very small family if he decided to annihiliate all unrepentant sinners and unbelievers. Am I right?
Kat:
Dawidos,
--- Quote ---Of course there is an option of total annihilation (erasing from existence which could be a counterpart to death penalty in the mortal world), but in this case God would have a very small family if he decided to annihiliate all unrepentant sinners and unbelievers. Am I right?
--- End quote ---
Yes, if He did not save all His family would be much smaller. But much more important it would mean Christ failed to do what He was sent to do.
John 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
Here is part of an email where Ray discusses this whole idea of annihilation.
http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm ---------------------
Although the Christian world as a whole despise the NWT, their own King James is very similar, with the one exception of most of mankind being NOT SAVED by "eternal annihilation" rather than "eternal torture." Either way, both teach that God will utterly fail in saving all of His children. This does not speak well for the most powerful and most loving Father in the universe!
The Watch Tower does, however, publish a book that I use ALL THE TIME. It is very helpful in MANY places. It is the EMPHATIC DIAGLOTT. Do you have a copy? Have you not notice how DIFFERENT it is from the NWT? Maybe just one example will put you on the Rod to a whole new world of Scriptural Truth discovery.
Matt. 25:46, NWT:
"And these will depart into EVERLASTING CUTTING-OFF, but the righteous ones into EVERLASTING LIFE."
This translation is very similar to the KJV:
"And these shall go away unto EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT: but the righteous into LIFE ETERNAL."
The only real different in the NWT's translation of the compound, "cutting- off" instead of "punishment."
Now then, let's check the Emphatic Diaglott:
"And these shall go forth to the AIONIAN CUTTNG OFF; but the righteous to AIONIAN LIFE."
This is a MUCH improvement over the King James and the NWT. The Greek word "aionios" or "aionion" never EVER means "everlasting" or "eternal." NEVER. For proof of this read the first ten pages of my letter to John Hagee in the paper "EXPOSING THOSE WHO CONTRADICT" on my site.
The Watch Tower's Diaglott has this word translated CORRECTLY--it is "aionian" or "eonian" or (if we must use a compound, "age-lasting" or "age- abiding").
But, although the Watch Tower's Diaglot has "eonian" it TOO, misses the mark by using "cutting-off" to translate the Greek word: "kolasis" which comes from "kolaza" which means "to CHASTISE." "Cutting off" is an aspect of this word, however, it is NOT it's primary meaning. It can carry the connotation of "cutting-off" (as in PRUNING A TREE), if the desired result is to IMPROVE rather than destroy or annihilate. This word is used only a couple of times in all the Greek Manuscripts. Here is the other place it is used:
"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear: because fear has TORMENT [Greek: kolasis]..." (I John 4:17).
Is John really telling us that "fear" causes "CUTTING OFF"?? That's absurd.
The proper translation of the word "kolasis" is neither "punishment" OR "cutting-off"--it means "CHASTENING OR CHASTISEMENT" -- to bring about correction, making something RIGHT -- RIGHTEOUSNESS: God's judgements (chastisements) bring about RIGHTEOUSNESS in the WICKED. That IS the result of God's Judgments. Just for curiosity's sake I checked the NWT translation of Isaiah 26:9 with regards to what happens when God really begins to send forth His JUDGMENTS into this earth:
"...because when there are judgments from you for the earth, righteousness is what the inhabitants of the productive land will certainly learn" (NWT).
Here, even the King James is a better and more accurate translation:
"...for when Thy [God's] judgments are in the earth, the INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD [all of them] WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (KGV).
YES THEY WILL. They will NOT be ETERNALLY annihilated, neither will they be ETERNALLY CUT-OFF.
There is a world of difference between the words "punish" and "chastise." Chastise carries to meaning of CORRECTING, MAKING RIGHT, ETC. Therefore, it can NEVER EVER BE EVERLASTING OR ETERNAL, as anything that is eternal NEVER fulfills its goal of "correcting or making right"!!
The reason most translations do not translate this verse in Matt. 25:46 correctly is not because it is that difficult to translate; it is not. It is because of the RELIGIOUS BIAS of the translators. And so the King James makes it appear that people will be "PUNISHED [tortured for eternity in fire) and the NWT make it appear as though it is "eternal," however, not eternal conscious suffering, but rather eternal cutting-off from God or literally, eternal annihilation. BOTH ARE DEAD WRONG!
This verse should be translated as follows:
"And these shall be coming away into CHASTENING EONIAN, yet the just into LIFE EONIAN."
And that is the meaning of the Greek words in this verse. It's just that theologians cannot then UNDERSTAND this verse. It doesn't fit the preconceived ideas of the Christians, nor does it fit the preconceived ideas of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
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