free will//pursueing first resurrection

[DougE6]

Gal 6:8  For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Co 9:27  But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Rom 2:7  To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Col 3:1  If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Heb 11:6  But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Php 3:14  I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

1Co 9:24  Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

Eph 6:13  Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm.

From this small handful of scriptures of hundreds I think it is clear that God wants us to struggle, to try, to exercise faith and put in our hearts the goal, the goal of age abiding life.  The age abiding life granted to those in the First Resurrection. I do not think that Paul uses military metaphors and running the race, obtaining the prize  metaphors for no reason.  I think we should make it our goal in life (and what a worthy goal it is) to be in the First Resurrection.   Even Jesus set His eyes on a goal.

Heb 12:2  looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

I understand the peace that comes from the full understanding of no free will.  But what sense do these scriptures make if we then, just say, God has already chosen and we will have to see?  Even though that IS A FACT, that God has already chosen, it does not eliminate these admonitions!  ADMONITIONS ARE VERY IMPORTANT AS THEY ARE COMMANDS!  The New Testament is full of admonitions. SO what do we do with those? Do we not take them seriously because "whatever will be, will be?"

I am only speaking frankly cause it is hard to express myself.  I think BOTH doctrines must always be kept in mind. The doctrine that God causes everything and there is no free will, and the doctrine that we must above all things, MAKE OUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE!

2Pe 1:5  For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,
2Pe 1:6  and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,
2Pe 1:7  and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.
2Pe 1:8  For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9  For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins.
2Pe 1:10  Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.

Understanding no free will demolishes the doctrine of eternal torment and gives us peace, but we also, in our day to day, must keep in mind the admonitions of scripture and seek the high calling.  I think that is a prerequisite to obtaining it!

  It is the sense I get from Ray that in no way are we to sit back in our knowledge but must OBEY the gospel.  If we are obeying, that is a good proof that God has indeed elected us! God has chosen us if we obey!

[eggi]

Hi Doug,

This is a wonderful and upbuilding post, in my opinion.

One cannot put enough emphasis to what you are saying here. After all, what is knowledge without love? And what is love if not obeying the Gospel and seeking to be like Jesus Christ ?

And there is no contradiction between not believing in free will, and willingly want to obey God! After all it is admonitions like this that CAUSES us to repent and obey the Gospel!

God bless,
Eirik

[Kat]

Hi Doug,

1Ti 6:12  Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

Yes we are to "fight the good fight" and "run the race."  These sayings depict how much a person must strive with all they have to "obtain the prize." Though it all is of Him, it is us who must actually do it.

When you consider that this "prize" is the greatest thing any human being could ever hope to receive, it is well worth all the effort we can possibibly muster. We all know it's not by our efforts, but His indwelling spirit that gives us that all consumming desire to seek Truth/God. So it's a good thing to desire and to be hopeful for and mainly to be striving with great effort to be in the first resurrection. Even as we know it's His spirit which accomplishes all these things in us, we must do it. As it will be those who enter in at His coming and hear Him say.

Mat 25:23  His lord said to him, "Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.'

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[longhorn]

Every Admonition in scripture will be realized when we have Lived by (out) every word that proceeds out of the Mouth of God. Matt 4:4 and, when we have experienced All Things.  For All Things are our's (yours, mine ) whether Apollos or Cephas, or the world or Life or death, or things present or things to come- All are yours ( Mine). 1 Cor 3: 21-23.

Longhorn

[cjwood]

thank you doug for that post.  it was indeed uplifting, and a challenge at the same time.  i also really enjoyed the other posted additions to this thread.  john, the scriptures you posted are all Truth, and they proclaim that all is of God the Father, BUT, they in no way contradict the scripture references doug posted.  we are urged to seek the higher calling, to run the race with love and steadfastness and godliness, knowing that there is a prize set before us that can be obtained if we endure the race.  and, it is NOT an easy race to run.  BUT, we are exhorted to seek the prize.  as Jesus Christ did Himself, because He knew what lay before Him and he was joyful about it.  the honor of sitting at the right hand of throne of His Father.  and the scriptures say, we too are to desire this prize.  as doug said, we have to obey.  obeying these exhortations require us to continually judge ourselves and remember we have been cleansed from our former sins, and to continue to not give in to our carnal, fleshly desires.  faith and trust in our Saviour to continue to draw us to Him, and His love, mercy and grace, will guide us on our journeys to seeking, learning, and living in obedience to Him.

claudia

[Akira329]

1)  Was Jesus good?

     Answer:  Jesus said, "Why do you call Me good?  No one is good but One, that is, God." Mark 10:18

2)  Well, surely Jesus could will to do good and in fact, do good, if He wanted to?

     Answer:  Jesus says, "...The Son can do nothing of Himself..." John 5:19   "...I do nothing of Myself..." John 8:28

3)  Well, maybe Jesus couldn't do anything by Himself,but the rest of us human beings can.  After all, aren't we to MAKE OUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE?

     Answer:  Jesus said, "I am the vine, you are the branches...for without Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

4)  Bummer.  You mean I cannot do good and follow God even if I try really, really hard?

     Answer:  Jesus says, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him..." John 6:44  "You did not choose Me, but I chose you..." John15:16

5)  Why can I not voluntarily on my own choose to follow God?

     Answer:  "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be." Romans 8:7

6)  Well, the above scriptures seem to say that mankind isn't all that good or important.  It sounds like everything is from God.

     Answer:  "...for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." Philippians 2:13

7)  All is from God the Father.

Hey John,
No one is saying we can do the scriptures posted by Doug without the spirit of God.
The scriptures do not contradict. We are to obey both.
We have comfort in knowing that it is God who works the works within us.

Antaiwan

[grapehound]

One will always see dichotomy in scripture, through carnal eyes.
Ray teaches that it is not meant to be understood with our metal architecture.
Scripture will not reveal "All truth" without spiritual discernment.

Don't let your heart be troubled, He approaches from within, to bathe our understanding with His light.

[cjwood]

Hello Claudia and Antaiwan,

If it is understood that any good works in us come solely from the Father through Jesus to us through their Spirit, then I agree.  I'm on board and a happy camper.

john, it is understood.  and, i believe i speak for many, if not all, here on the forum in this agreement of understanding on this subject.

claudia

[Deborah-Leigh]

i believe i speak for many, if not all, here on the forum

When ever any one of us speak, we speak as One!

BTF is like a soul. Life is in the soul. That's God. God is Life, our life, love, hope and joy and fellow-ships!

Ships, no longer passing in the dark, but entering into the dawning Soul of Christ within.

Blessings
Arc

[grapehound]

John, Claudia and Arc,
Amen.