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Author Topic: Does anyone know where Ray Teaches on Joshua 24:15  (Read 1711 times)

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Does anyone know where Ray Teaches on Joshua 24:15
« on: January 07, 2011, 01:44:26 PM »

Choose you this day whom you will serve.  Pretty sure he as talked about this verse, but don't remeber where. Thanks



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Re: Does anyone know where Ray Teaches on Joshua 24:15
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2011, 02:43:00 PM »

Hi Longhorn,

This is the only place I could find, in an email, where Ray is ask about this verse. ---------

[Ray Replies]

Dear Todd:

I get hundreds of criticisms regarding the salvation of all and the fallacy of human free will. But never has anyone approached this subject with any real intelligence at all, not to mention completely contradicting dozens of plan Scriptures.

You state that Joshua making a CHOICE to obey God "sounds like free will to you." It may, indeed, 'sound' like free will to you, but it is nothing of the kind. Nowhere in Scripture or in my writings will you find a statement that man does not MAKE CHOICES.  All men make millions of choices--billions!  Making a choice has absolutely nothing to do with the doctrine of "free moral agency" or what is commonly called, "free will."

We choose all day long. God asks us to choose. The human brain has the ability to weigh data and make a choice. I nor the Scriptures deny this fact. What I AND THE SCRIPTURES do deny, is that man has the ability to man "UNCAUSED" choices. For that is what "free" will is all about--UNCAUSED choices, and I and the Scriptures both agree that this is a physiological impossibility. 

If something always MAKES OR CAUSES you to choose what you do, then you and your data-processing-brain are not "free" or out of the realm of "causality" to do anything BUT what a cause made you choose. You can say the cause, forced, made, or soften,  to influenced, or inspired, but the end result is always the same: ALL OF OUR CHOICES ARE INFLUENCED, INSPIRED, OR CAUSED to happen by billions of circumstances beyond our knowledge or control.

Therefore King Nebuchadnezar was CAUSED to see that it is God and God alone who rules in the kingdoms of individual men and corporate men.  God said that it was HE, GOD, who CAUSED [MADE] the king of Assyria do the warring and slaughter that the king thought he himself had the ability to do.

Jesus said He could no NOTHING except what the Father gave Him to do AND TO EVEN SAY, and Jesus said that without Him, we also, CAN DO NOTHING.

Here is what the Scriptures say, Todd: 

"For it is GOD which works in you both TO WILL AND TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).

Now then, what was that you said about "it would take the Holy Spirit of God to change you mind?" Here's the Scripture (inspired by the very SPIRIT OF GOD): do you now see it and believe it?

You say that if eternal damnation is not true then Jesus suffered and died for nothing. How could anyone make such an ignorant, unscriptural statement??  TODD!  If eternal damnation IS true, THEN  JESUS CHRIST SUFFERED AND DIED FOR NOTHING!!!   You are saying that if Christ's Sacrifice was not COMPLETELY successful, THEN IT HAS MERIT, but if Christ's Sacrifice was 100% completely SUCCESSFUL, THEN IT HAS NO MERIT?   What kind of insane reasoning is that? 

The Father commissioned Jesus to "BE THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD" (I John 4:14). In this He will be completely successful, which you then in turn tell us makes his commissioned sacrifice and obligation to the save the whole world of no value.

It is the very fact of Jesus Christ's successful atonement that WILL bring about complete and total salvation to all mankind.  Where do you come up with such nonsense?   That Christ's sacrifice and atonement is only of value if the turns out to be mostly a failure for the billions whom Christendom teaches will be doomed forever because God lacks the ability to bring mankind to repentance and acceptance of His Son's Sacrifice.  All mankind WILL repent and accept Jesus as their Lord and Master and Saviour (Phil. 2:9-11), and this is ONLY possible by the work of the HOLY SPIRIT (See I Cor. 12:3b). These are SCRIPTURES, Todd, not speculation.

All have denied Christ, all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God, Todd, but this is not the final destiny of mankind. ALL WILL come to ACCEPT Jesus. We just read it in the Scriptures. Do you believe these Scriptures, Todd?

You quote Scripture when you said that the "wages of sin is death," but then go on to completely contradict that Scripture by insisting that the "wages of sin is an ETERNAL LIFE of punishment"!!

I do not have the time to go into this in detail in an email, Todd, since it requires a great deal more explanation and citing of Scripture.

Be sure to read the next installment of my "Lake of Fire" series, as I will cover this aspect of human free will and the way in which God will bring about the salvation of all mankind.

God be with you,




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Re: Does anyone know where Ray Teaches on Joshua 24:15
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2011, 02:58:11 PM »

Also, after the children of Israel state they will serve the Lord, Joshua tells them that they are unable:

Joshua 24:15-20  And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”

So the people answered and said: “Far be it from us that we should forsake the LORD to serve other gods; for the LORD our God is He who brought us and our fathers up out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage, who did those great signs in our sight, and preserved us in all the way that we went and among all the people through whom we passed. And the LORD drove out from before us all the people, including the Amorites who dwelt in the land. We also will serve the LORD, for He is our God.”

But Joshua said to the people, “You cannot serve the LORD, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. If you forsake the LORD and serve foreign gods, then He will turn and do you harm and consume you, after He has done you good.”

After this exchange, the children of Israel reiterated to Joshua that they would serve the Lord [v21], but continuing in the book of Judges, they did not. This is how the scriptures are for our admonition. This is every person's relationship with God since the beginning of time.
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