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Author Topic: great big orphanage  (Read 3190 times)

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lostANDfound

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great big orphanage
« on: January 26, 2011, 11:10:17 AM »

hey all,
 i'm just sitting here thinking, letting my mind wander a bit after reading
matt 6:6 whenever you may be praying, enter into your storeroom, and, locking your door, pray to your Father Who is in hiding.  it's the in hiding part that i latched onto today.

it's almost like the world is a big orphanage full of kids longing to be adopted, running around tackling each other, with no idea that their wonderful, perfect future Father is watching everything from behind a bush.  and some of these kids have noticed a foot and part of a hand so they have an idea that there is a Father but don't know anything about Him.  and a very few of those kids- whenever they wander close enough they can hear Him and He can hear them.  And knowledge of His presence changes their behaviour, and knowledge of how good and loving and wise He is to those who can hear Him also changes their behaviour.  even though when it comes down to it they are no different than any of the other kids tearing around except for what they are blessed to be aware of.
and some of the kids who have no idea that this Father is there behave very well despite not knowing, but more don't.  And some of those few kids who can see bits of Him and talk to Him behave very badly even though they know He is watching everything.  And there is going to be a long serious talk once that Father steps out from behind the bush.  and one by one each kid will need to talk to the Father about how they were behaving in light of how much they knew.   

possibly full of holes but i was struck by the "is in hiding" part today.  especially that He's hiding Himself, it's not like it's passive and He has been hidden.  He is hiding Himself for a reason. 

thoughts?
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Ninny

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Re: great big orphanage
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2011, 11:22:06 AM »

Yep! Sometimes it feels like God is hiding Himself from us...it feels dark and lonely sometimes...I often wonder what is He trying to teach me with His silence....maybe I will know someday?
Kathy  :-\
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G. Driggs

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Re: great big orphanage
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2011, 11:57:01 AM »

Nice analogy. Here is another one, He is playing hide and seek with a select few He is adopting ahead of the rest. He is hiding, and URGING the ones He is currently raising/adopting to seek Him, leaving nuggets of clues here and there as to His whereabouts, all the while never far from them. Sometimes they get lost looking for Him, but He is always close enough to say, "here I'am" and get them back on track to finding Him.  :D

G.Driggs

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mharrell08

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Re: great big orphanage
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2011, 12:13:12 PM »

I agree, great analogy lostANDfound.

Isa 53:6  All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way

1 Pet 2:25  For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

Mal 2:10  Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us?

2 Cor 6:18  I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the LORD Almighty.

Eph 4:6  One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all
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GaryK

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Re: great big orphanage
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2011, 12:23:13 PM »

I have ‘serious’ talks all the time, in fact every morning standing on my porch over a cup of coffee, directed right at him.   Now whether he’s listening, don’t know.  I don’t see him, I don’t hear him.   But he shouldn’t ever tell me I didn’t talk to him.  I don't make a habit of hiding behind a bush.  If he wants to have a serious talk, bring it.  Serious talks should work both ways.  He doesn’t need explanation from me, I need explanation from him. 

This world is crap with some serious bad people and serious bad things going on.  As far as I’m concerned it’s time to thin the herd a bit and rid this world of some of these non-forking family trees and it’s sorry by-product.

Before BT I used to think on God and Christ all the time, every night as a matter of fact. My favorite mental image was bowing at Christ’s feet, never looking into his face, but just asking forgiveness for what I am and what I’ve become.  That’s the best I could offer.  Not much of a relationship but I gripped it with a steel fisted grip. 

I don’t think of that anymore. 

My mind has become twisted with a little bit of deeper knowledge and all I do is point my finger at God and tell him he’s got some explaining to do himself.   Flat out, I do not understand the non-free will and purposeful bad things in exchange for some mysterious, far off, hiding behind a bush better ‘spiritual’ development.  Any ‘spiritual development’ on this end has become pure rot and decay, and it stinks.   I don’t care for it.   He wants to hide behind a bush, go for it.  I’ll be standing here in the open, waiting.

He knows how I’m behaving.  Badly.  Always have.  No good marks here, and I’m not looking for any.  If he’s god then I don’t need to explain.   He does.  And it’s past due.

Whelp, I thought about letting go on this one but I’ll keep it sweet.  Besides, there's plenty of others here who like to keep things rosey enough. 

Sorry L&F, you asked, I told you.   No offense to anyone.

gk
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DougE6

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Re: great big orphanage
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2011, 02:01:25 PM »

Hi Gary
Rom 8:18  For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
I know that may sound afar off and the like, but that is why we need faith.  When you have faith, it doesn't seem so far off, though. It seems it is present right now, inside.
Heb 11:6  But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
God rewards the diligent seeker with the faith to see wisdom in pain and suffering and the bad things, then gives the hope that overcomes the trials, and the world; and overcomes the all too human perspective that you have aptly described.
We all vacillate between extremes, both the human earthly perspective, and the Godly hope filled perspective. But strive to see the Godly perspective; hope it grows way more real to you than the earthly, human.
And when you think that God has any explaining to do? Look at the cross. God is not asking anyone of us to feel anymore pain or hardship than Jesus did.  He even though has a great and glorious outcome in mind for us all, still condescended to experience all of human misery, so no one can ever say He was unfair in making us suffer things that he himself would not. He did experience and suffer in like manner to anything that He is requiring us to go through. And we can overcome too., as Jesus did.
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Kat

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Re: great big orphanage
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2011, 02:39:32 PM »


Hi lostandfound,

Yeah good analogy, I like how analogies help you understand something. Yes God is 'hidden,' it is necessary that the world not know the true God or how could they worship the god of this world. So God is hidden from the world at this time. But He actually is in all things all the time and very much aware of all things.

Col 1:17  And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

He is evident in everything around us, how can anybody just say things just happened into being, that goes against all logic.

Rom 1:20  For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,


Hi Gary,

It is true we are living in a very dark world at this time. Yeah right now things look like a mess, but we can see an analogy of this in a tremendous number of physical things we do. Take a cake, when you throw all the ingredients in a bowl, yeah it does look like a mess, but that is just the start of the process of making a beautiful delicious cake. Some statures start out as just a big ole piece of rock, before they are carved skillfully into a beautiful piece of art. When watching a house being built, the whole thing looks like a mess for quite some time before they start getting close to finishing it and you can see what a grand building it will be. Same with the world, we are in the beginning of the process, but how else are you going to get the end product without going through all the steps first?

So we are in the beginning stage, the very start of the process of making us into the image of God. We don't like being in all this mess, we don't like participating in the evil we do and we don't like suffering because of it either. I believe all we are going through now in this world is valuable, actually priceless learning experiences. Sure we could just be told how bad evil is and that we should not get involved with it, but I really don't think that would work good enough with most if not every single one. You don't easily forget something you experience, so the best way to gain the knowledge of evil is to go through it ourselves and experiencing it.

Now I know it seems this evil and suffering is too much, there just must be too much of it in the world. Well I actually believe God designed it exactly to the degree that is best for us. He could have designed it where we suffer more, if He wanted... or less. But in His wisdom I believe He made it just right, enough so it sticks with you and you won't forget about it. But I certainly don't believe it is more than is absolutely necessary.

We have been brought into existence and this physical phase is a starting point. We are in the hands of a perfect loving Father, I have no doubt that in the age to come that some how God will provide justice for all.

Not trying to beat you over the head with this, just thought maybe something could ring true to you.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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GaryK

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Re: great big orphanage
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2011, 05:55:03 PM »

Thank you Doug and Kat.  Good thoughts from you both and I appreciate them.  Doug, the faith you speak of isn’t something I can generate by ‘good thoughts’, re-reading scripture or Ray’s writings repeatedly.  But you already know that.  I don’t want ‘my’ faith.  I had that.  It had faulty wiring.  For what micro amount of knowledge I may have (and it is that small), I’d give it up for a nano-fraction of HIS faith. (you numbers boys don’t be checking my math on that one  ;)  )

The analogies, Kat, are good and I understand what you’re saying, and you understand from where I’m coming.  They make good sense.  But, you usually do.

The facts are that people are different.  Some souls are happy….some souls are dark, but the world stays the same, bad to worse. I haven’t always had this antagonistic point of view.  (I used to be a real sweetheart and kill these enemies quickly without prolonging with life-pondering quagmires.)   

I like to think god moves us each through life with a myriad of changing views of the prism we see this world, depending on his schedule.  My view, looking out through the spiritual prison bars, has become a bit stagnated and dim.   

Truthfully, I don’t want to turn this topic into a ‘me’.  I’ve had enough of ‘me’ to last this lifetime and then some. 

This too shall pass.   But it sure won’t be because I, myself, held the keys to the cell door all this time
.


Quote
Hi Gary,

I hear what you're saying.  The Father is hard to figure out.  A tough nut to crack.  The Scriptures say God is love.  The Scriptures also say that God created evil.  Love and evil don't normally go together.  The Father created the most magnificent being.  Then the Father willed that this being must suffer and die.  Go figure.  Hard to understand.  At least it won't be boring.  Take care amigo.

John



'love and evil don't normally go together'...................Precisely. 

Thanks John.
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lostANDfound

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Re: great big orphanage
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2011, 06:09:47 PM »

you may be guilty of a few other offenses Gary, but you can't be charged with being lukewarm!  and i might be guilty of being one of those "rosey" ones, preferring not to attend too much to the absolute horrors of our blip of time on earth.  yes, this tendency is very much out of weakness.  
babies getting abandoned, abused, raped.  people's flesh being burned in house-fires. starvation. isolation. addiction.  to think on these things and try to reconcile them with who I am learning God to be?  no thanks.  and God chose to create us with these fragile bodies and minds that are able to suffer intensely.  this is very heavy stuff, and i commend you for looking at it with your eyes wide open rather than shoving your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes tight and singing hymns.  i also commend your willingness to "put it out there" on a forum like this where you obviously knew you would meet some opposition.  i DO NOT commend your attitude towards God though.  i think if you continue to shake your tiny pipsqueak fist at God without really begging for understanding first, and seeking, and waiting, it will be to your utter shame.  if pain and suffering are a (necessary!) part of the process required to change us from weak and carnal to strong and spiritual, SO BE IT! and while i can't claim to understand the full glory of the end of the story, i think there is more to it than "some mysterious, far off, hiding behind a bush better ‘spiritual’ development".  mothers choose to have second, third, fourth babies even though they know through experience exactly what they will suffer -crazy intense pain- because it is WORTH IT. and once it's done, it's done.  it'll be worth it.  i have to believe that.  i hope and pray that God will reveal to you (and us) some more of His plan.  cuz for sure none of us fully get it yet!    
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walt123

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Re: great big orphanage
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2011, 11:00:48 PM »

Hi,Garyk

I don't think this will be turn to you only,but we all do in some point in time.
Here are some Scripture to think about.

Job 38:1-3 (New Living Translation)
1 Then the Lord answered Job from the whirlwind:
2 “Who is this that questions my wisdom
with such ignorant words?
3 Brace yourself like a man,
because I have some questions for you,
and you must answer them

Job 40:1-2 (New Living Translation)
1 Then the Lord said to Job,
2 “Do you still want to argue with the Almighty?
You are God’s critic, but do you have the answers?”

Job 42:1-3 (New Living Translation)
1 Then Job replied to the Lord:
2 “I know that you can do anything,
and no one can stop you.
3 You asked, ‘Who is this that questions my wisdom with such ignorance?’
It is I—and I was talking about things I knew nothing about,
things far too wonderful for me.

Isaiah 45:9 (New Living Translation)
9 “What sorrow awaits those who argue with their Creator.
Does a clay pot argue with its maker?
Does the clay dispute with the one who shapes it, saying,
‘Stop, you’re doing it wrong!’
Does the pot exclaim,
‘How clumsy can you be?

Hebrews 12:3-7 (New Living Translation)
3 Think of all the hostility he endured from sinful people;[a] then you won’t become weary and give up. 4 After all, you have not yet given your lives in your struggle against sin.
5 And have you forgotten the encouraging words God spoke to you as his children? He said,
“My child,[c] don’t make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and don’t give up when he corrects you.
6 For the Lord disciplines those he loves,
and he punishes each one he accepts as his child.”[d]
7 As you endure this divine discipline, remember that God is treating you as his own children. Who ever heard of a child who is never disciplined by its father?

Jeremiah 12:5 (New Living Translation)
5 “If racing against mere men makes you tired,
how will you race against horses?
If you stumble and fall on open ground,
what will you do in the thickets near the Jordon.

Ecclesiastes 1:13 (Young's Literal Translation)
13And I have given my heart to seek and to search out by wisdom concerning all that hath been done under the heavens. It [is] a sad travail God hath given to the sons of man to be humbled by it.

WALT.
 
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PSALMS 133:1
How wonderful it is,how pleasant,when brethren live together in harmony!

Joel

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Re: great big orphanage
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2011, 11:22:24 PM »

Hey gk
I can relate to where  you are coming from, I went through the whole Babylonia thing. And when I came out I wasn't a happy camper either, and tried to get as far away from God and religion as the east is from the west. I guess I was swallowed up by the whale like old Jonah, but without the voice of God telling me to do anything.
 This went on for twenty years plus, and then one day I smacked a truck head on, and this old boy was vomited out on the pavement feeling more ready to serve God.
 I have been called one stubborn so and so, and I won't offer any defense there, seeing as I have come to see that myself. Guess God has to do what he has to do to crack some of these old hard NUTS.
 I had to come to my last straw before God showed himself and I feel blessed today to know him in the small portion that these feeble eyes can see.
 He hears us when we pray, so I keep on keeping on, its his strength not mine. It hurts some times when he gouges out a stone or some other impurity before we hit the fire. And that's necessary so we don't crack in the fire.
 I can't deny any of the evils I have done before him, and I don't think he will shuck any responsibility for any of his creation either.
 I have been, and felt like a fatherless child both physically and spiritually.
 All the faith I have has came from him, so I ain't here to be boasting about anything for my part.
 My puny suffering here is nothing compared to Jesus suffering for us ALL, I can see that now. I guess if salvation required that we all be nailed to a cross, there would be a lot less takers and Church world would be less populated. ???

Joel
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DougE6

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Re: great big orphanage
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2011, 01:01:09 AM »

Lostand Found,
I commend you for reminding us all of this truth....you wrote"  if pain and suffering are a (necessary!) part of the process required to change us from weak and carnal to strong and spiritual, SO BE IT! and while i can't claim to understand the full glory of the end of the story, i think there is more to it than "some mysterious, far off, hiding behind a bush better ‘spiritual’ development".  mothers choose to have second, third, fourth babies even though they know through experience exactly what they will suffer -crazy intense pain- because it is WORTH IT. and once it's done, it's done.  it'll be worth it.  i have to believe that.  i hope and pray that God will reveal to you (and us) some more of His plan." Your analogy of the mothers giving birth is very scriptural, too.....

Joh 16:21  A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world....that is one of the things JESUS SAID WHEN ABOUT TO FACE HIS BIGGEST AND TOUHGEST TRIAL< THE CROSS!!  God shows us the picture here, these are MERELY BIRTH PAINS to something glorious, far more glorious than we can even grasp right now. Of course it hurts, birth pains hurt a lot.

ARE we not supposed to consider it PURE JOY when faced with hardship and pain, because of the POSITIVE EFFECT it will have on us?...1Pe 4:13  But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. Why did Jesus ENDURE the cross? Because of the joy set before him! ...Heb 12:2  Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

These pains are why we need to keep the faith, and to run the race, and to pray for one another, and try to support one another in the midst of it all.  Gary of course I have completely felt and thought the thoughts you have.  But please, beseech God, to return yourself to your first Love, as I am also asking God to do, so earnestly. That is the greatest thing one can know.  To love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength.  God will give it to those who ask. And do not stop knocking, do not stop seeking, until your last day.  It is that important.  All these questions will evaporate someday.
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: great big orphanage
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2011, 05:01:25 AM »

The transition to begin talking directly TO God, unfortunately for us, requires inordinate doses of pain, to pry off obsessions ABOUT God.

Obsessions about God are like barnacles that attach to the underside of a boat that need to be scraped off before the boat can sail safely with balance and assurance.

The transition to begin talking directly TO God, unfortunately for us, requires inordinate doses of purging pain, to pry off those barnacle obsessions and imaginings ABOUT God.

To be purged of mental images of adoration of mock up mental images of Jesus, celebrates only where God can bring us into that one on One with Him.

Barnacles on the hidden underside of boats, keep many boats un sea worthy and tied to harbor, locked by anchor and going nowhere.

You’re sailing gk. I can feel the wind of His Spirit in and around you.  8)

Some of my most valuable communications with God have been the direct ones that are produced in the crucible of pain and fire.

Blessings
Arc
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One Love

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Re: great big orphanage
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2011, 07:42:24 AM »

I have ‘serious’ talks all the time, in fact every morning standing on my porch over a cup of coffee, directed right at him.   Now whether he’s listening, don’t know.  I don’t see him, I don’t hear him.   But he shouldn’t ever tell me I didn’t talk to him.  I don't make a habit of hiding behind a bush.  If he wants to have a serious talk, bring it.  Serious talks should work both ways.  He doesn’t need explanation from me, I need explanation from him. 

This world is crap with some serious bad people and serious bad things going on.  As far as I’m concerned it’s time to thin the herd a bit and rid this world of some of these non-forking family trees and it’s sorry by-product.

Before BT I used to think on God and Christ all the time, every night as a matter of fact. My favorite mental image was bowing at Christ’s feet, never looking into his face, but just asking forgiveness for what I am and what I’ve become.  That’s the best I could offer.  Not much of a relationship but I gripped it with a steel fisted grip. 

I don’t think of that anymore. 

My mind has become twisted with a little bit of deeper knowledge and all I do is point my finger at God and tell him he’s got some explaining to do himself.   Flat out, I do not understand the non-free will and purposeful bad things in exchange for some mysterious, far off, hiding behind a bush better ‘spiritual’ development.  Any ‘spiritual development’ on this end has become pure rot and decay, and it stinks.   I don’t care for it.   He wants to hide behind a bush, go for it.  I’ll be standing here in the open, waiting.

He knows how I’m behaving.  Badly.  Always have.  No good marks here, and I’m not looking for any.  If he’s god then I don’t need to explain.   He does.  And it’s past due.

Whelp, I thought about letting go on this one but I’ll keep it sweet.  Besides, there's plenty of others here who like to keep things rosey enough. 

Sorry L&F, you asked, I told you.   No offense to anyone.

gk


GK, you're a brave man, you remind me of the Psalmist David, Job & his friends, infact, the whole bible, good or bad, GOD took them out! Why do that? we didn't ask to be here, but GOD made it so, no way out of this life, people cried unto him, suffering was worse than now, everything under the sun is vanity. They all sleep in the earth awaiting his return. It was not better even when Jesus was on earth, but we have to hope on. Our daily cries will change nothing, nobody can please GOD. Even those who think they're good is not. Vanity! vanity, vanity!
God Bless us all
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GaryK

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Re: great big orphanage
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2011, 03:12:12 PM »

 i DO NOT commend your attitude towards God though.  i think if you continue to shake your tiny pipsqueak fist at God without really begging for understanding first, and seeking, and waiting, it will be to your utter shame.  


LOL.   Maybe so.

You’re reminding me of Mrs. Horseman.  When things get a little too heady she’d notch me down:  “hey tough guy, you may have sovereign kingship in that barn out there, but in THIS house you weld power when I give it to you!”   

That usually settled things.

Not that you’re worried L&F, but I know where my boots are planted.  I haven’t flipped.  I’m an inch shy of sane as the next sane person.  You should see how wrought I get if someone hurts an animal.  There are some souls in this world that function more efficiently as puddles.

God knows what he’s doing.    I know that.  He’s just showing me the ears work better when the mouth is shut.  Scrapes and bruises are part of the package.

And to each and every one who has left encouragements and pointers, thank you. 


gk
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lostANDfound

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Re: great big orphanage
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2011, 06:29:43 PM »

just read this and thought of you gary:

from an email to ray called Overcoming

Dear Chris:

Yes, "been there; done that."  You can't of yourself get yourself out of your sin and misery.  You desire it, but you will not find the strenght in yourself to do it.  God brings all of His chosen elect to the place in their life where they hate life; they hate themselves; and often hate God.  When you get that low and are so very thoroughly convinced that you can and will never overcome you most horrible sins, that is when God will come to your rescue.  You must be convinced that if you are saved from yourself and your sins, that it was God that did it and not you. I am convinced of that in my life. If God is choosing you, then it will also happen in your life.  Just keep praying and obeying until God gives you the victory over yourself and your sin. I will pray for you.

God be with you,

Ray

(i added the underlining and bolding)
and i know that's not exactly your situation just thought it was interesting!
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