> General Discussions
Spiritual Journey Dilemma
DougE6:
Hi John
That was a nice email from Ray that you posted. But let us read it carefully. I will quote the part of the email that DIRECTLY pertains to a statement you made which I feel is extremely dangerous to say. This is the quote from Rays email which is the correct understanding and I do not believe your belief is in line with this.
But "it's all GOD" Who is ACTUALLY doing it, isn't it? NO, YOU, ACTUALLY, ARE THE ACTIVE PARTICIPANT WHO IS DOING IT! God merely brings about the circumstances that INFLUENCE AND CAUSE YOU TO DO IT!
How could Ray say it any clearer than that? NO GOD DID NOT IN REALITY KILL 6 MILLION JEWS AS YOU STATED. NO evil corrupt men, evil Hitler, evil camp guards, evil commandants, out of THE EVIL IN THIER HEARTS...they killed 6 million Jews. You have just blamed God by attributing this evil work to Him, DIRECTLY. You said QUOTE...However, in reality, it was God the Father who killed the six million Jews..........I would NEVER EVER say such a thing. EVER.
God may have planned that such would happen. He may have arranged circumstances to show the intense evil in these peoples hearts. God full well knew what they would do. BUT GOD did not do it. THEY DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They did the actual work and they showed evil in their hearts and they are accountable and God is NOT the one who actually killed those jews.
God as the First and sufficient cause, does take responsibility and took responsibility at the cross, for all the evil acts that men would commit. No question. And praise Him for that. And our wills do bend to the strongest cause, and the strongest cause usually is our exceedingly sinful hearts.
But I would be a lot more circumspect in your language and in what you say. I would not blame God for my evil acts or any evil acts of anybody. I am accountable, not God.
Deborah-Leigh:
God is responsible for everything and everyone.
We are accountable. We shall give account for ourselves.
That is a beautiful connection God has designed that connects us intimately, personally and irrefutably, to His Mercy, Pity, Love and Sovereignty ~ but who will know it?
Arc
Marky Mark:
John and Doug,what say Scripture concerning our reason for being...
Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness:I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Psa 139:12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
1Co 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Ecc 9:2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as [is] the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.
Ecc 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Its all of God...
Peace...Mark
lostANDfound:
accountable - liable to account for one's actions; "governments must be accountable to someone beside themselves"; "fully accountable for what they did"; "the court held the parents answerable for their minor child's acts of vandalism"; "he was answerable to no one"
responsible - chargeable with being the author, cause, or occasion of something (usually fol. by for ): Termites were responsible for the damage.
DougE6:
Everything goes down the way God intends it to go down. Everything. but all the sinning that takes place as God worketh all things according to the counsel of His will? All voluntary. Every sinner sins unforced by God, voluntarily. Hence the giving an account.
God doesn't FORCE anyone to sin. Hence we are all must give account. In Josephs case, God caused Josephs brothers to hate Joseph by giving Joseph dreams that angered his brothers and also gave Joseph favored status with his father, which raised jealousy in them. Knowing the hearts of the brothers, and arranging events, it was easy as pie (for God) :) to have Joseph thrown into a pit and sold to slavery in Egypt by his brothers. That was all of God. For a great purpose. But God did not force his brothers to do the evil they did.
I think this is the side of the teeter totter that is easily overlooked when we say everything takes place according to the counsel of His will. Everything does take place according to the counsel of his Will. But God does not tempt anyone, they are drawn away of their own lusts.
Arc wrote a beautiful summation statement, IMHO. It spoke to me deeply. ....That is a beautiful connection God has designed that connects us intimately, personally and irrefutably, to His Mercy, Pity, Love and Sovereignty ~ but who will know it?...
I know it Arc...I just want it pointed out, some of those above subtleties, which I believe are easily overlooked, but are very important. I apologize if I came on strong, but I really believe it is a very important distiction to keep in mind. God bless you all.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version