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God is "longsuffering"

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byonespirit:
Hi,I am a new member;I just posted an intro.I heard recently a claim that 1Peter 3:9 refutes people having to be regenerated first by God before they can believe.It went like this:From this verse God is longsuffering,so God is "waiting patiently" for people to repent.And then God says......"What,silly me, I have to regenerate them FIRST before they can repent!"So this person apparently believes in free will(but I don't),So how do we understand this verse in the light of man not having a free will?And is the word regenerate even IN the scriptures,sorry,I haven't even looked that up yet.I do know God chooses us,
      Blessings to all in the wonderful name of Jesus Christ,the Savior of the world!

                          Ben

longhorn:
byonespirit.  Welcome to the forum.  The word regeneration is mentioned in Titus Chapter 3: 5. It is part of the whole " Being conformed " into Christ image process which is by grace.  There are alot of smart people on this forum who can articulate this much better.  Keep reading Ray's material and know that he who has began a good work in you will complete it.

Love in Christ

Longhorn

Kat:

Hi Ben,

2Pe 3:9  The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

It's pretty easy to take a Scripture and explain it to mean what you want it to. But "the sum of your word is truth (Psa 119:160), so every Scripture matches up perfectly with the rest of Scripture and there is no contradictions, ever.

Rom 2:4  Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

2Tim 2:24  And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,
v. 25  correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,

As Longhorn said, yes there is a Scripture that speaks of "regeneration."

Titus 3:5  not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

God does regenerate us throught the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but not because we have decided to accept Him, for we can not come to God, He must "draw" us.

John 6:44  No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Hope that is helpful.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Dawidos:
Good, this subject came up, cause I must share with you my doubts. How do we know that everything in the Scriptures is right? I mean the entire Bible. Who decided that the Bible consists of those all books? I suppose it was the Church, and how we are supposed to believe them. I know that the Church has excluded some books and manuscripts and they are not considered "canon" now. The second explanation can be that those books has been written by many people. Maybe some of them were empowered by the Holy Spirit, but others could have been deceived one way or another and their books found their way to the Bible. Maybe it could explain the contradiction between talking about free will in some Scriptures and not free will in the others. What do you think?

Kat:

Hi Dawidos,

When we have a Scripture like, "the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will" (Eph 1:11), it is an absolute truth. Now there are those Scripture that speaks to the effect that 'we' must do something...

Php 2:12  Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

These Scriptures are relative to our perspective as to how things work. But never do they contradict the absolute Scriptures, as you can see by the next verse.

Php 2:13  for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

But Ray has already explained this, so here is an email.

http://bible-truths.com/email14.htm

Dozens of times (maybe hundreds) God speaks to us AS IF He were a man. But God is NOT A MAN.

Some examples:

"And the Lord REPENTED [changed His mind] of the evil which He thought to do unto His people" (Ex. 32:14).

Vs.

"And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for He is not a man that he should repent [change His mind]" (I. Sam. 15:29).

Is this a flat out Biblical contradiction? NO. On statement is from man's point of view, and the other is from God's point of view. One is the RELATIVE, while the other is the ABSOLUTE.

"...choose you this day whom ye will serve" (Josh. 24:15).

Vs.

"Ye have NOT chosen me, but I have chosen you..." (John 15:16).

The relative point of view from man's position seems to put the ability to choose on man's shoulders, while the ABSOLUTE truth from God's position is that 'no one CAN come to Me...." (John 6:44).

"...whosoever does not righteousness is NOT of God" (I jn 3:10).

Vs.
   
"ALL is of God" (II Cor. 5:18).

Unrighteousness is NOT of God's heart. Those who doe wickedness are of their father the devil, Jesus said. Yet, even THAT is OF GOD in the ultimate sense.

One more:

"Zachariah was JUST before God" (Luke 1:5). 

Vs. 

"NOT ONE is JUST" (Rom. 3:10).

Again, Zachariah was "just" FROM MAN'S point of view. When comparing him with all the other corrupt priests, Zachariah certainly appeared to be JUST. But from God's ABSOLUTE point of view, not even Zachariah was just.

And so there are hundreds of just such statements in Scripture that appear to make God out to be HUMAN, with HUMAN anatomy (eyes, ears, face, hair, arms, etc.) when in reality God IS SPIRIT and has ABSOLUTELY NO HUMAN ANATOMY.

When God asked:  "Where art thou Adam?" Are we to assumed that God Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, DIDN'T REALLY KNOW WHERE ADAM WAS HIDING??   And then, "WHO TOLD YOU that you were naked?" Does God REALLY NOT KNOW THE ANSWERS TO THESE SIMPLE QUESTIONS?

It was for ADAMS SAKE that God asked: "Where art thou" and "who told you that you are naked." From man's point of view God "repented" or "changed His mind." But God has not revealed to the whole world that ALL IS OF HIM, and he NEVER EVER CHANGES ANYTHING! Now do you see and understand. Good.

There are thousands of highly educated theologians and teachers that do not grasp these simplest of Bible Truths.
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As for the authenticity of the Scritures as being Holy and God's Word to man, Ray devoted a whole conference to that 'How We Got The Bible.'  Even Jesus Christ Himself endorsed some of the Scriptures. I would put excerpts, but it would take a great many, so I will just leave it to be read as a whole to find all the undisputable info about how we got the Bible that we have today.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.0.html

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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