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God is "longsuffering"
byonespirit:
Doug,
Now that is what I believe I was looking for!I think that God giving us all an experience of evil to humble us pretty much says it all as to why God is patient with us.And you are right,the free will position seems to assume that God does not even KNOW if someone will repent or not!BUT...most Christians will agree that God has total foreknowledge;I guess this is another example of the contradictions that Babylon teaches.The man who was trying to refute being regenerated first was actually trying to refute that part of Calvinism that teaches it,But we know that we don't have to be Calvinistic in order to believe that God really is working all things(even the evil) according to the counsel of his own will. I am so blessed to know that Jesus Christ will actually save the world,and do what he came to do.We are in that process of being humbled and go through evil things, and I can agree totally with God:THY will be done....no matter what the COST! Thank you ,Doug!
PS...Do you know how to put someone's text highlighted in blue,like I have seen on the forum?Or anyone...please?lol
Kat:
Hi byonespirit,
To put someones quote in a box, highlight the part you want to quote and then click the box over the message board. It is the next to last box on the second row.
Kat
DougE6:
Hi Ben (byonespirit)
You know, I have frequently thought to myself, and take this "tongue in cheek" as there is so much more to fill in...but...that if one would take the complete sovereignty of God understanding of a Calvinist, that God does indeed elect and steer all things, and combine that with the understanding that it is really God's desire that all men are to be saved that the Arminians hold to, and throw out the one error they both hold in common, and refuse to let go of, that of eternal punishment...you would have something at least close to the truth!
You would have a God who has the power and sovereignty to carry out His hearts desire...to save everyone!
You would have a God that is looking more and more of what we so well know and receive!
So it does not surprise me that your Arminian friend wants to attempt to attack the no free will doctrine "irresistible grace and election" of the Calvinist with their carnal understanding of that scripture because that is what disagrees with, predestination...He just thinks the Calvinist is being awful in that God is predestinating people to that eternal hell that he also believes in, but at least he tries to claim that men send themselves there, he wants to get God off the hook. So unless he gets rid of eternal torment as an a priori, that he interprets all scripture from that lens...he will never see the sovereignty of God in those scriptures, because he probably hates Calvinism.
But I chuckle to myself, and I draw some satisfaction, that these truths, that of Gods sovereignty, and of Gods desire to save everyone, are true and present enough that two complete factions of Christianity can see and embrace one of them each, even if not both, and that is nice to see, but it is very sad that they will not accept these two truths together, because then they would be FORCED to conclude that God will indeed save everyone, that then God would have the power and the will to "override"(we know God doesn't actually have to override His methods are far more sophisticated yet totally 100% effective) mans will and do His hearts desire to save everyone; but then they would need to get rid of the common horrible doctrine they both share, that billions are going to spend eternity in literal flames and burn forever. Their blindness in receiving and fear in not questioning that error is what they both share and then they fight over two truths that are both true and yet they each respectively deny.
Just be happy that both truths are true!
Doug
cjwood:
i'm happy about that doug.
claudia
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