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CARNAL NATURE
Marky Mark:
--- Quote ---It had to be before the disobedience because Jesus was NOT born of ADAM! ???
DougE6
--- End quote ---
What say the Holy Scripture...
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Luk 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was [the son] of Heli,
Luk 3:31 Which was [the son] of Melea, which was [the son] of Menan, which was [the son] of Mattatha, which was [the son] of Nathan, which was [the son] of David,
Luk 3:32 Which was [the son] of Jesse, which was [the son] of Obed, which was [the son] of Booz, which was [the son] of Salmon, which was [the son] of Naasson,
Luk 3:33 Which was [the son] of Aminadab, which was [the son] of Aram, which was [the son] of Esrom, which was [the son] of Phares, which was [the son] of Juda,
Luk 3:34 Which was [the son] of Jacob, which was [the son] of Isaac, which was [the son] of Abraham, which was [the son] of Thara, which was [the son] of Nachor,
Luk 3:35 Which was [the son] of Saruch, which was [the son] of Ragau, which was [the son] of Phalec, which was [the son] of Heber, which was [the son] of Sala,
Luk 3:36 Which was [the son] of Cainan, which was [the son] of Arphaxad, which was [the son] of Sem, which was [the son] of Noe, which was [the son] of Lamech,
Luk 3:37 Which was [the son] of Mathusala, which was [the son] of Enoch, which was [the son] of Jared, which was [the son] of Maleleel, which was [the son] of Cainan,
Luk 3:38 Which was [the son] of Enos, which was [the son] of Seth, which was [the son] of Adam, which was [the son] of God.
Gods Word never fails to show His Truth.
Peace...Mark
aqrinc:
Gal 3:16-19 (KJV)
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
george.
DougE6:
Hello obviously my writing is to opaque
I never denied in any way that Jesus was the promised seed, or of Abraham seed, or wasn't man, or come in the flesh, or anything remotely like that when I said he was not born of Adam, but born of God. Jesus Father was God, (can we agree on that?) not Adam or any of Adams descendants. That was my point. Of course his mother was descent from Adam. But NOT HIS FATHER. His Father was GOD. Not any man not any descendant of Adam) That is a BIG DEAL, and I felt that helped understanding. I truly thought that train of thought was obvious. In fact I STATED most explicitly that Jesus was in fact man very emphatically and he was made in fashion as a man....on and on...not sure how 4 words I had written in a row could be seized upon, ripped out of context.,( NOT born of ADAM! He had no part of that sin in Him. He was born of God ...that was the original context) so misunderstood, and then turned into an issue. whatever. My bad for not being clear.
These are my final thoughts on this matter and I will seriously reconsider posting from now on
1. Jesus had an understanding of good and evil without ever experiencing disobedience. This was quite unlike Adam. I missed this very big point earlier. Adam had to disobey God to learn of good and evil, and had to eat of the tree. Jesus had an understanding of good and evil from God without EVER disobeying. I feel stupid for forgetting this obvious and very important difference.
2. As I said before, most explicitly, several times, and to repeat again... Jesus did NOT have a carnal mind!!!!!
3. So I was trying to wrestle with how Jesus can be tempted without a carnal mind, and how this can relate to US who most decidedly DO HAVE carnal minds. How can he be tempted in ALL POINTS as we ARE and yet NOT HAVE A CARNAL MIND? How can He be tempted like me with a carnal mind, if He doesn't have one? Has anyone else volunteered any thoughts how this could be? No I don't see it. Shoot me for trying. and as some have pointed out, being tempted by itself is not a sin, (yes that is true) but it doesn't answer the question. We know God CANNOT be tempted. And God clearly has NO carnal mind. So how do we make it all fit? At least in my bungling I was trying to show that Jesus mind was not corrupt like all of Adams descendants, and the only thing I could POSTULATE was that in Adam, there must of been a BIG difference between Adams heart and mind, before and after the disobedience, that Jesus shared in common with the UNDISOBEDIENT Adam, but I am letting that go. Because of point 1 above. That helped my understanding a lot.
4. When satan tempted Jesus, he did so by offering Jesus the easy way, the way to end His hardships, His hunger, His pain and His suffering. So his human flesh could stop screaming for relief. To get all the kingdoms of the world, without the pain of the cross. To feed Himself, and mitigate his hunger, and end his fast, with miracle power, so stepping out of the complete obedience to the will of God, and waiting on God. And so on. To test Gods word by jumping off a cliff and proving his messiahship, you get the picture.
5. Jesus testing and temptations were of continual and constant denial of the fleshly needs of being a human being. Everyday of His life. Of putting aside his privileges at all times and at all times fully submissive to Gods will. From this He never wavered. Even at the cross, when the full magnitude of what was to happen was upon Him, he persevered and passed on the easy way and faced the cross full blast.
6. So in that constant submission, in that continual denial of his flesh, was Jesus temptations. They are indeed in all points like us, because saying NO is saying NO. Denying oneself is the very CRUX of overcoming temptation and then emerging victorious. And Jesus said NO in a far greater way and far greater extent than we ever will. I know my flesh would of strayed many times.
So Jesus wasn't carnal, His mind was pure, and His heart was holy, but He denied Himself and His fleshly needs and His very human needs BY complete submission to the Father. He had all the human fleshly wants and needs that our physical bodies do. But He never strayed from the will of God. That is how I see that Jesus could be in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. And he did NOT have our carnal minds which are guilty, sinful, and in open rebellion to Gods laws, and cannot obey them.
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: DougE6 on February 17, 2011, 02:40:09 PM ---So Jesus wasn't carnal, His mind was pure, and His heart was holy, but He denied Himself and His fleshly needs and His very human needs BY complete submission to the Father.
--- End quote ---
Good comment Doug. I think we can all agree this subject has run its course.
There's no need to stop posting Doug. Just remember that on occasion, a lot gets lost in translation when communicating through a message board (tone of voice, facial expressions, etc.) that we as humans depend on everyday in our communications. We all just have to exhibit patience with one another, this is no one's fault.
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