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Author Topic: Truth No. 6 - 12 God-Given Truths to understand His Word  (Read 2166 times)

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onelovedread

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Truth No. 6 - 12 God-Given Truths to understand His Word
« on: March 05, 2011, 11:16:32 AM »

I have a question that keeps bugging me about finding at least a second witness to establish a Scriptural truth or doctrine.
How do we know that the 'second witness' we select is the proper fit?
Is there not the tendency to match spiritual with the physical?
Or is that the correct way to match? But doesn't Ray teach that we should compare spiritual with spiritual to find a spiritual match?
I would really appreciate your wisdom and insight on these thoughts. Please help a slow brother out ???
Thanks
John (onelovedread)
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longhorn

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Re: Truth No. 6 - 12 God-Given Truths to understand His Word
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2011, 11:59:40 AM »

Great question onelove, I hope to see alot of replies from Arc and the likes on this one.  Slow Brother..... not you..... I cheated and still failed typing in school... typing for goodness sakes.  Had alot of fun in High school though.

Longhorn

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mharrell08

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Re: Truth No. 6 - 12 God-Given Truths to understand His Word
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2011, 12:14:28 PM »

I have a question that keeps bugging me about finding at least a second witness to establish a Scriptural truth or doctrine.
How do we know that the 'second witness' we select is the proper fit?
Is there not the tendency to match spiritual with the physical?
Or is that the correct way to match? But doesn't Ray teach that we should compare spiritual with spiritual to find a spiritual match?
I would really appreciate your wisdom and insight on these thoughts. Please help a slow brother out ???
Thanks
John (onelovedread)


This excerpt from Truth #7 should help:

In the previous truth we learned the need for two witnesses. In this truth we will learn the need for those two witnesses to be a "spiritual match." Letís now "spiritually match" two witnesses and see the marvelous eye-opening result.

After being introduced to the Great White Throne in Rev. 20:11, we read of the judgment of every manís work in fire:

And I saw the dead small and great stand before God, and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them, and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Notice the specifics of these verses:

"Every manís work is to be judged by fire."

EVERY MAN

Every manís WORK

Every manís work is to be JUDGED

Every manís work is to be judged IN FIRE

But we learned that no witness can stand alone. We must have at least TWO WITNESSES to establish the truth of any doctrine. For the simple fact that orthodoxy absolutely refuses to give you a "spiritual match" to these Scriptures, it has enabled them to attach all kinds of unscriptural, extra-scriptural, anti-scriptural heresies to the above Scripture. Why wonít they give you a "second witness," and a "spiritual match" to the above Scripture? Because the only second witness which is a spiritual match to the above Scripture, destroys their whole pagan teaching regarding it, thatís why.

Now then, is there a second witness to: Every manís work is to be judged by fire? Yes, there is a SECOND witness to this Scripture. But we are looking for more than just a second witness. We have just learned that we are also to "compare [or match] spiritual with spiritual." We are looking for a second witness which is a SPIRITUAL MATCH to these statements that Every manís work is to be judged in fire."

Would you believe that there is ONE and ONLY ONE such spiritual match to this Scripture in the entirety of the Bible? After I give it to you, you will clearly see why orthodoxy will not even concede that this Scripture IS a second witness and a spiritual match. Here it is:

"Every manís work shall be made manifest for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try [test, examine, judge] every manís work of what sort it is. If any manís work abide that he has built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any manís work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss, BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire" (I Cor. 3:13-15).

There it is: a perfect spiritual match and a second witness to Rev. 20:13-15):

EVERY MAN

Every manís WORK

Every manís work TRIED, TESTED OR JUDGED

Every manís work tried, tested or judged IN FIRE

Why do Christians and theologians hate what I have just shown you? Because when we put these two spiritually matched Scriptures together, we also are given the added knowledge that there is SALVATION in and through this fire which judges us, and the Church doesnít want all mankind to be saved. Yes, the most evil people who have ever lived, will also be saved one day, but contrary to what all of my detractors constantly lie about my writings, is that they will not be saved before they are purged in "Godís CONSUMING FIRE" of every last vestige of evil and carnality.


You'll know a 2nd scriptural witness when both passages reference the same underlying truth. Jesus said the only sign (symbolism) that He would provide to the Pharisees was the sign (symbolism) of Jonah:

Luke 11:30  For as Jonah became a sign to the Ninevites, so also the Son of Man will be to this generation.

When comparing physical to physical, there is hardly a match. Jonah was thrust into the belly of the whale, whereas Jesus was tortured and crucified on a cross. But when comparing spiritual to spiritual, both went through hardship, pain & agony in order to deliver a message from God.

The tendency to match spiritual to physical is simply to understand 'how' the spiritual works. The Lake of Fire is said to contain brimstone, but seeing how the Lake of Fire is spiritual and not tangible, so is the brimstone. The brimstone in the Lake of Fire is like real brimstone, in certain ways:

Excerpt from Lake of Fire Part 6 (http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html) [note: there is a lot more on brimstone in this installment's entirety]:

ORIGIN OF THE WORD ĎBRIMSTONEí

Strongís Greek Dictionary of the New Testament: brimstone, #2303. theion. We are told that "Theion originally denoted Ďfire from heaven.í" This word theion #2303 comes from the Greek word theios #2304, of which we read the following:

Theios means :

(1) DIVINE, and is used

(1a) of THE POWER OF GOD (2 Pet. 1:3), and

(1b) of HIS [GODíS] NATURE, (2 Pet. 1:4), both of which proceed FROM HIMSELF.

(2) In Acts 17:29 it is used as a noun with the definite article, to denote THE GODHEAD, THE DEITY, THE ONE TRUE GOD." (Caps and underline emphasis are mine).

WOW! What a marvelous revelation of Spiritual Truth! So, again, why is there brimstone in the lake of fire?" BECAUSE GOD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF IS IN THIS FIRE! God IS this fire, this spiritual "CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29). THIS FIRE IS NOT ONLY SPIRITUAL; IT IS DIVINE!
THE LAKE OF FIRE IS DIVINE SPIRITUAL FIRE FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN TO PURGE, PURIFY, CLEANSE, AND HEAL ALL IMPURITIES OF ALL HUMANITY!!! Is this not the best news youíve heard all day?



Hope this helps,

Marques
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Chris R

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Re: Truth No. 6 - 12 God-Given Truths to understand His Word
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2011, 09:58:36 AM »

It's a good question,

I believe once a scriptural truth is found, nothing can ever contradict that truth. There are many truths that Ray has helped us see,  Once discovered, you will not only see a second witness, but a 3rd 4th 5th, and 6th..etc etc.....  I dont need to eloborate on the subjects, But "sheol" Hades" "Aion", Are three huge truths with many witnesses. 

While there are many subjects We cannot answer completely, and certain truths may not be revealed in this life time, they all will be revealed "some" time.

Chris R.
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Kat

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Re: Truth No. 6 - 12 God-Given Truths to understand His Word
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2011, 10:54:11 AM »


Hi John,

I hope this section of the 5th article 'A Scriptural Explanation of the Lake of Fire' will help with your question.

http://bible-truths.com/lake5.html -----------------------

Now for all of those who insist that all of Godís Word must be taken literally, I have another problem verse for you. Jesus Christ said in John 6:63b:

"Öthe words that I speak unto you, THEY ARE SPIRIT and they are life."

Even this simple statement is a metaphor! Condensed, it says this: "[my] words are spirit." Thatís not literal; thatís figurative. Hereís the proof: If all the words that Jesus spoke were "literally" "spirit," then no one could ever READ THEM. You could never see them on a printed page because THEY WOULD BE INVISIBLE! SPIRIT IS INVISIBLE! GOD IS INVISIBLE!
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How then shall we interpret this metaphorical Scripture? Or is this the enigma of all enigmas? The riddle of all riddles? Actually the Scriptures tell us exactly what this "lake of fire/second death" really is. But let me be quick to reassure you that we will never come to an understanding of this metaphor by applying the principles of Christian Theology. This metaphor is NOT physical, material, or literal, but SPIRITUAL in every way! We must look to the spiritual, through spiritual eyes if we are to ever comprehend this enigmatic metaphor.

                      THE KEYS TO SPIRITUAL INTERPRETATION

We will consider four guiding Scriptures:

1. "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation" (II Pet. 1:20).

The KJV is not the best translation of this verseóit is neither by far the worst. The word "private" tends to fog the understanding of this Scripture. If no Scripture is to be of a "private" interpretation, are we to look for a "PUBLIC" interpretation? That sounds silly.

This is a profoundly important verse when it comes to interpreting Scripture. Yet, I doubt that there are many who understand this verse.

The Greek word translated "private" in the KJV is the word idios, and although it can mean private or separate, more specifically it has reference to "oneís OWN" or "his OWN" or "their OWN" or "your OWN" or "OWN." In this case, it would mean "ITS own" as a prophecy is non-personal and inanimate. See Strongís Greek Dictionary p. 119. Now notice a couple of translations that retain this definition:

First from the Concordant Greek Text in an "Ultraliteral English Sublinear": "Öthis BEFORE-most KNOWING that EVERY BEFORE-AVERment OF-WRITing OWN ON-LOOSing NOT IS-BECOMING."

Rendered in the Translation as: "Öknowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture at all is becoming its OWN explanation."óConcordant Literal New Testament

Next from the Emphatic Diaglott English Interlineary: "Öthis first knowing, that all prophecy of a writing, of its OWN loosing not it is."

Rendered in the Translation as: "This first ascertaining, That All Prophecy of Scripture is not of its OWN Solution"óThe Emphatic Diaglot, A New Emphatic Version.

I go to all these extra efforts of showing you the Greek so that you can be convinced yourself and not just believe that this is "my interpretation" of how a verse can or cannot be "interpreted."

So now we can make sense out of this verse, and how profound it is. It destroys the carnal minded approach to Scriptural interpretation. So here is what God is teaching us. No prophetic statement (Revelation is prophecyóSee Rev. 22:18, "Öthe words of the prophecy of this scroll") has within its OWN statement the explanation and fulfillment of that statement. Therefore it is wrong and unscriptural to insist that the very verse that contains the prophecy (such as "the lake of fire. This is the second death") has within itself the interpretation of itself. Thatís what God has now taught us in II Pet. 1:20! Therefore, we must go elsewhere to find the correct interpretation. But how do we do that without making blunders and mistakes? We have three more Key verses that will keep us on the right track.

2. "It is the spirit that quickens [makes alive]; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, THEY ARE SPIRIT and they are life."

We touched on this verse already, but it is an important part of our four-verse key. Again I ask: Who believes this verse? If the words that Jesus spoke are "spirit," then how can anyone suggest that everything He said must be taken "literally?" Christ taught in public by parables only. Parables are spiritual, not literal. The book of Revelation is the "Revelation of Jesus Christ," therefore the words of the book of Revelation are SPIRIT! The book of Revelation was "signified" (that is SYMBOLIZED). It is a whole book of symbols, metaphors, and figurative language. Therefore the metaphor: "the lake of fire which is the second death" must be spiritual! But how do we discern things that are "spiritual?"

We need another key.

3. "But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED" (I Cor. 2:14).

And so when I explain spiritual things, I get a lot of e-mail from Christians who condemn me in not too flattering tones, because they are carnal and cannot possibly receive spiritual things. They truly are FOOLISHNESS to them. They ask me if I canít read. They tell me the verse ITSELF tells us what it means. (But isnít that just what Peter said cannot be done? That no verse of prophecy explains ITSELF)?

There are reasons God put these verses in the Scriptures.

Remember earlier when we discussed how theologians compare physical things with physical things thinking that they will accomplish something spiritual? Show me a Scripture where God instructs us to compare physical things with physical things for spiritual understanding? SHOW ME! David said "A good understanding have all they that KEEP Godís commandments." The problem with all too many is that they donít obey God ("Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed CAN BE" Rom. 8:7), and they donít believe God. We MUST believe God when we are told that the book of Revelation is the words of Jesus Christ and therefore is SPIRIT! Next I will give you one of Godís commandments we are to follow if we are to ever understand such things as "the lake of fire."

The Scriptures donít command us to compare physical things with spiritual things or spiritual things with physical things or physical things with physical things, so why do we do it? That is exactly how theologians have come to believe that the lake of fire and second death are literal physical tortures for all eternity. They have compared physical fire with physical fire and came up with the conclusion that the lake of fire is physical, material, literal FIRE! God never instructed us to learn spiritual lessons in this manner!

Next we will see how God does instruct us to understand SPIRITUAL MATTERS.

4. "Which things also we speak, not in words which manís wisdom teacheth [not by comparing physical things with physical things], but which the HOLY SPIRIT TEACHES; COMPARING [OR MATCHING] SPIRITUAL THINGS WITH SPIRITUAL" (I Cor. 2:13)!

This is really quite profound. This marvelous Scripture, plus the three prior Scriptures will open up understanding to us that has been closed to many Christians for two thousand years.
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Now back to our fourth key verse: "Öcomparing spiritual things with spiritual." Several translations make this "Ömatching spiritual things with spiritual." And that word "matching" clarifies this verse even more. Notice the next verse which we have already quoted above, "But the natural [carnal, Greek: animal man] receives NOT the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither CAN he know them, because they are SPIRITUALLY discerned." Now I have heard that verse quoted as many times as any of you, but how many quoting it had even a clue as to what they were quoting? It is often used by charismatic preachers to insinuate that they have special powers of spiritual discernment, and can therefore read your mind and heart and know whether you are in a bad attitude or maybe have a demon, etc., etc. But notice that God tells us exactly how to have "spiritual discernment." We are to follow the instruction in the preceding verse: "comparing [and/or matching] SPIRITUAL things with SPIRITUAL!"
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Before we look for something spiritual to match this metaphor, it will be helpful to know just what it means to be "spiritual." There is a giant different between something sounding spiritual and something that actually is spiritual.

WHAT DOES "SPIRITUAL" MEAN?

The American Heritage Dictionary, p. 1335, spiritual adj. 1. Of, relating in, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; NOT TANGIBLE OR MATERIAL.

Strongís Greek Dictionary of the New Testament, "spiritual" #4152, pneumatkos, "Pneumatkos ALWAYS connotes the ideas of INVISIBILITY and of POWER" p. 205. (All CAPS are mine).

THE "LAKE OF FIRE-SECOND DEATH" IS NOT TANGIBLE OR MATERIAL OR LITERAL, BUT RATHER IS AN INVISIBLE POWER! THE LAKE OF FIRE IS SPIRITUAL!

Thatís right: the lake of fire is spiritual and therefore invisible. No one will ever SEE the lake of fire; just as no one will ever SEE Godís Spirit; and just as no one will ever SEE Godís "consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29). But make no mistake about it; the lake of fire is REAL, and it is very HOT, and it BURNS things, and its effects are ETERNALóall, of course, SPIRITUALLY SPEAKING.

We need also to understand that not everything that is "spiritual" is holy and good. There is also "spiritual wickedness" (Eph. 6:12). Many believe that the impartation of "immortality" and "incorruption" automatically impart holiness and perfection as well. This is obviously not true, as there is much "spiritual wickedness" in high places among those who do possess incorruption and immortality. We must understand that something "spiritual" can also be extremely wicked, as this has much to do with the purpose and function of the lake of fire. Not only is the lake of fire itself "spiritual," but, everything that is thrown into the lake of fire is either spiritual or at least inanimate or intangible (as with "hades and death").

Okay, fine; the lake of fire is spiritual, but what about these questions: Who are thrown into it? When is it? Where is it? Why is it? What does it accomplish? How long will it burn, and how can you escape it? Now I could answer all those in one sentence, but it wouldnít be very detailed, and I am sure you would want to know more.

I think most of my readers by now realize that I donít believe for one second that the lake of fire is some hellhole of real fire that burns and tortures human flesh for all eternity. So we will now concentrate on just what the lake of fire is, what it accomplishes, for whom, and how long will it take.

To do this we must follow Godís four keys to understand spiritual things. God has provided these Scriptural keys so that the wise can and will understand His Word.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 10:57:34 AM by Kat »
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onelovedread

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Re: Truth No. 6 - 12 God-Given Truths to understand His Word
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2011, 03:12:45 PM »

I thank you all for helping me to get it. I do appreciate you and feel like I have fellowship with true sons of God. You guys are the best.
John (onelovedread)
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