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Making the Grade
Stacey:
The following is in of the LOF part 3
FOR WHAT DID PAUL VOLUNTEER?
All who will have a part with Christ when He comes to rule this earth in His kingdom must volunteer for judgment now! Remember how Paul volunteered: "What will You have me to do?" But just what was Paul volunteering to do?
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Was he volunteering to be praised and adored by the public?
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Was he volunteering to wear thousand-dollar suits, $500 shoes, $20,000 Rolex watches, drive $80,000 automobiles, live in multi-million dollar multiple homes, fly in private executive jets, and collect millions and millions and millions of dollars of poor people’s money to promote the gospel of prosperity and worldliness?
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Did our Lord tell Paul that his ministry and calling would be a "walk in the park" with never-ending comforts and pleasures, having medals and honors bestowed upon him by the leaders and dignitaries of pagan nations, living in a five and a half-million dollar mansion large enough to be a luxury hotel, while feasting like a fat king in the opulence of Babylonian extravagance?
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Is this the description of a successful minister of the Gospel?
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Was Paul’s message to all the Gentile nations that they had to give to him (or they would be ROBBING GOD) ten percent of all their gold, silver, salaries, or money, so he could flaunt his worldly and lavish lifestyle in the faces of these poor Christian converts.
Let’s "get real" as they say.
"For I will shew him [Paul] how GREAT things he must SUFFER for my name’s sake" (Acts 9:16).
In II Cor. 11:22-28 we learn that Paul suffered the following:
weariness jails blows
deaths thirty-nine lashes flogged with rods
stoned shipwrecked day & night in swamp
journeys dangers of rivers dangers of robbers
dangers of his race dangers of the nations dangers in the city
dangers in wilderness dangers in the sea dangers from false brethren
toil and labor vigils famine and thirst
fasts cold and nakedness
"Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me DAILY, the care of ALL THE CHURCHES"! (2Co 11:28)
Add a little "fire" to the above scenario and we might conclude that Paul was being tortured and punished in a Christian hell.
But Paul was not being "punished," he was being "JUDGED," and there is a world of difference. Paul was being made STRONG. Paul was being molded into a SPIRITUAL GIANT! And being trained, educated, purged, perfected into a spiritual giant is NOT a walk in the park!
Was it just Paul that God singled out to endure such hardships and trials? No, we too must partake of the same:
"Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that WE [Christians, followers of Christ] MUST through MUCH TRIBULATION [Greek: thlipsis--affliction, troubles, burdens, persecution, anguish] enter into the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22).
OK. There it is. There is the measuring stick and criteria we are to use as a our example for qualifying or not for the resurrection, rule and reign with Christ. That is if I understood it right and if I did well, by golly, I have nothing to be concerned about with that first group of folks in the resurrection. I don't see anything that Paul went through in his personal conversion or his trials, chastening, and afflictions happening to me. Except for coming around about 180 degrees in my understanding of what God has planned out for us all.
I have yet to really be able to identify and establish in my mind just what it is exactly, that I can point my finger at and say, yep, that there is Chastening or this or that is a trial or affliction. Other than words on a page with definitions, what is it specifically? What if anything can I point to to use as a rule of thumb, identifier or measure that can be singled out as Chastening, trails and afflictions for my faith in Jesus? Nothing I know of at all.
Now don't get me wrong here, I am not ranting. I find no reason to doubt what Ray has said here in Part 3. I am just wondering, questioning my own faith or position with the Lord as a whole. I wonder. Do any of you fit the criteria laid out here in Part 3?
If we take all the knowledge we have gathered together, what we knew before and now since finding Ray, add it all together and then what? What do we do with it? Go start Churches like Paul did and then maybe receive chastening, trails and affections for it like Paul? Live with it by holding on to it, keeping it to ourselves and not doing a thing with it? What good could come out of that and how would that bring about anything remotely close to what Paul went through in our lives? I don't think it would.
OK, maybe I did rant a little, but it's not directed at anyone other than myself and God. Heck, I don't even know if I made any since at all here to anyone. Sorry if this all seems kinda mumbo jumbo.
Although I think that I have volunteered for judgment now, seems to me that if the above is how we are to measure up to making the grade well, at this point and time, I ain't making a passing one. How about you?
Let me add one more thing. I'm not having a woe is me moment. I am however, judging myself.
Dave in Tenn:
Paul described himself as Chief of Sinners, and Ray teaches that this is not false humility speaking, but truth. Paul may be chief, but aren't you somewhere in the roll-call? Maybe you can't get 1000-fold on your investment, but can't you get something by overcoming sin in your life--assuming there is any. :D I should only speak for myself.
Do you think it was easy for Paul to go through the process that changed his view of self and world-view from Pharisee who was perfect according to the Law, to Chief of Sinners? That's some heavy-duty repentance there!
Is that not enough suffering for you?
I'll just pull one that seems out-of-our-immediate-control from the list you posted of near drownings and shipwrecks and other things you don't think you are experiencing. Have you not recieved inordinate blows? Blows delivered by Messengers of Satan? You've not been decieved or lied to or misused by ministers in the Synagogue of Satan? Never suffered that, and overcame?
If you've been 'faith-ful' in the little things, you can be trusted to be faithful in the big things. And if you haven't been faithful in the little things, then don't even bother God asking for bigger things. Don't turn the things Paul went through into religious observances. Now that's some mumbo-jumbo for you.
Hang in there, Stacey. You're not fully baked yet.
Kat:
Hi Stacey,
The way I look at it, Paul is just one individual that God prepared to be in His family to serve his (Paul's) purpose. He has been in the process since Jesus Christ of preparing a family to rule with Christ when He returns. I do not believe He wants a bunch of Pauls or Peters or Johns... He is preparing each of the Elect unique to serve their own purpose. I think He is giving everybody all these different experiences so that He will have this group of diverse people with all these varying talents and knowledge from the experiences they have gained in this life. There is no person we have to measure up to, He is preparing in each of us exactly what He wants us to be. So don't worry, He is the one preparing us, it's not up to us.
So when He has finish preparing this family at Jesus Christ's return, it will be a group of people (family) with all manners of abilities. He will bring this family into His heavenly kingdom where they will become one with the Father as Jesus Christ is and be in perfectly unity with God. When this family has been prepared and are one with Christ and the Father they will be ready in every capacity to serve God in judging the world.
Think about it we are having all these first hand experiences in life... who is better able to help somebody with a problem than a person that has experienced that same problem already.
I believe when God has completed His family of Elect, He will have created a group/temple that have every experience/ability/talent/capability that He could possibly need to call on. This temple will be formed, unitied and perfectly knit together to serve and do His will flawlessly in judging this human race, just as He has planned.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
bpenelli:
Ephesians 1:3-14
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—
6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace
8 that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.
9 And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ,
10 to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
(http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%201:3-14&version=NIV1984)
Brad
Duane:
Stacy...I on't have any breath-taking revelations to help you with BUT sometimes I have wondered the same things. It seems my life is rather seditary (sp) as opposed to being ship-wrecked and imprisoned but I believe God can and IS still working through us.
It seems my greatest "tribulation" was explaining to my friends and family that I was introduced to Ray's web-site--studied it and believe it--and I lost all respect of my friends and family (even to the point of getting BLOCKED from this web-site) and am an object of pity and prayer for my "recovery". Now, DID I REALLY ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING OVER JUST BEING A SILENT BELIEVER? DID I CHANGE ANYBODY'S MIND?
DID I HELP ANYONE GROW IN THE WORD? IS MY POOR LITTLE FEELINGS BEING HURT AND BEING REJECTED QUALIFY ME AS BEING CHOSEN??
All I can say is: I don't know. But I DO know that my postings have helped and encouraged others--especially the stroke vicitms family. So sharing my situation may be part of my calling as well as sharing my
observations and "knowledge of the Bible" with others as "posts".
Do what you feel called to do , in faith believing and God will sort it out.
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