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"You are not of my sheep"

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Hopeful:
Hi guys. I'm having some trouble with John 10:26. "but you do not believe because you are not my sheep." Christ said earlier that He laid down His life for His "sheep". So if they were not of them, then does that mean they were not covered in the Atonement? Please help me out here. This is making me very nervous as well as very sad.  :'(

bpenelli:
John 10

14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me—
15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

Hopeful:

--- Quote from: bpenelli on March 09, 2011, 06:49:01 PM ---John 10

14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me—
15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

--- End quote ---

I have read that verse. However, I have always been taught to interpret it as "other sheep" meaning Gentile believers and "not of this sheep pen" meaning not of Israel. I am having a hard time overcoming this interpretation, especially in light of the fact that Christ explicitly said to some that they were not of his sheep. This really worries me and causes me doubts about universal reconciliation. I would like nothing more than to banish these doubts forever, but nothing seems to work. Do you have anything else?

arion:
We have the many and the few...the called and the choosen.  We find those woven all throughout the scriptures and Ray's teachings.  In this age many are called and few are choosen.  In this age most are not his sheep.  But, we know that this age is not the end of the story although the churches of babylon tell us this.  Those who are not his sheep in this age will become his sheep in the ages to come when every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess to the glory of God that Jesus Christ is Lord!!

bpenelli:
These are notes I've gathered from Ray's papers on this topic specifically:

Jesus is the saviour of the WORLD not just believers.

(1 John 2:2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

(John 3:17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

(John 12:47) And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

(John 4:42) And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

(1 John 4:14) And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

(Isaiah 26:9) With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

(2 Cor. 5:19) To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

(1 Timothy 1:15) This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

(1 Timothy 4:10-11) 10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially [not exclusively] of those that believe. 11 These things command and teach.

(Romans 8:32) He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

(1 Corinthians 15:21-22) 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive [The Greek word is zoopoieo, and it means to give life beyond the grasp of any future death]. [Also it says 'in Christ All' not 'all in Christ].

lake4 [And although this particular verse does not say that "all" are now "IN Christ," it does most definitely say that "in Christ," the "ALL" shall be shall be "made alive." "Made alive" does not prove they are "in" Christ or that they are "saved," only that they have been given immortal life. Then comes JUDGMENT. But don’t think that therefore there is no Scripture that says they will eventually "ALL" be "IN" Christ, because there is:

"That in the dispensation of the fullness of times He might gather together in one ALL [‘things’ is not in original] IN Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth, even IN HIM" (Eph. 1:10).

Let’s read it again. A verse this important and all encompassing cannot be over emphasized:

"That in the dispensation of the fullness of times He might gather together IN ONE [just as in harvest time] ALL IN Christ, BOTH WHICH ARE IN HEAVEN, AND WHICH ARE ON EARTH; IN HIM."

Christ first raises ALL to immortal life. At a later date He gathers this same ALL into Himself. The "in Christ ALL" (I Cor. 15:22) then becomes the "ALL IN CHRIST" (Eph. 1:10). Every creature in heaven and earth will be ONE IN Christ! I hope you can believe that.

Ver. 23-24: "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at His coming. Then cometh the end…"

The King James starts a new sentence and a new verse with the words, "Then cometh the end…" It should, however, be a continuation of the previous sentence. There are three items in view here, not just two. The Concordant Version has a better rendering of this:

"Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ’s in His presence; thereafter the consummation…"

One, two, three. So there are three orders or classes that synchronize with the three festivals of harvest, and not just two classes that synchronize with Prophet Benny’s first "month" of the year only theory. Notice them:

"The Firstfruit, Christ" (The Passover, The Wave Sheaf).
 
"Thereupon those who are Christ’s" (Pentecost, the Firstfruits)
 
"Thereafter the consummation [the end]" (the final Fall Harvest of Ingathering in the end of the year).
These three match perfectly with the three types of harvest in the Old Testament. So yes indeed, there will be a fall harvest at the end, at the CONSUMMATION.

Now the rest of verse 24:

"…thereafter the consummation when He [Christ] shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."]

(Romans 5:18-19) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

(Acts 17:31) Because He has appointed a day, in the which He shall JUDGE THE WORLD in righteousness by THAT MAN [Jesus Christ] Whom He has ordained; whereof He has given ASSURANCE UNTO ALL MEN ['all'--that would be EVERYONE], in that He has raised Him from the dead.

(Isa. 26:9) For when Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth the inhabitants OF THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

(1 Peter 1:19-20) 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

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