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Everyone "raised" in the church?

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Dave in Tenn:
2Th 2:3.4  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Rev 18:1-4  And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.  And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.  For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Rev. 2:1-29   ...He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches...

The Kingdom of heaven is like...Many are called, but few are chosen.

It's absolutely essential to the plan and purpose of God that there be A Church and HIS church existing in the world.

Even if a child is brought up with the Doctrinal truths of God, he or she still has to fall away, see the beast rising out of the sea, the man of sin and the son of perdition, and 'come out of her' to be counted as one of God's people.  Everybody has had to do that since Adam.  This is why I'm not a "unviversalist".  That doesn't necessarily mean that he or she needs to wind up on the streets shooting heroin into his or her eyeballs.  We are saved "BY GRACE...THROUGH FAITH".  We can 'fall away' and see the 'man of sin, son of Perdition, beast' by faith.  Indeed, that's the only way we CAN see.

*corrected a misquotation of Scripture* 

Revilonivek:
Dave,


--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on March 17, 2011, 09:20:38 PM ---

The Kingdom of God is like...Many are called, but few are chosen.



--- End quote ---

You know why?

Kingdom of God is a state of mind, that is of christ consciousness

I wonder how anyone can overcome the flesh as it is very hard to do.. of course, not impossible without God in you.

JEsus said the kingdom of God is within us.. it is our state of mind... goal is to reach christ consciousness(His Kingdom) Luke 17:21 (King James Version)

 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

I think Gandhi is truly a saint of God, he has dedicated himself to the service of humanity-  he said he cannot both serve flesh and spirit and committed to a life of celibacy after about 37 years, after having four children.  He said he doesn't even look in the mirror either.  He fasts often to fight for others rights, he puts others ahead of himself. He believes in nonviolence. He said hindu and christianity believes very similar on nonviolence, and he said when his college friends showed him scripture of the holy bible, the part where it told him to turn the other cheek when someone hits you, it was when it struck him that the beliefs in hindu and Christianity were so similar. Someone once tried to turn him into an idol, because he did something great for them, he protested and said it was not him that healed them but God.  and before he died, he was trying to unite both hindu and moslems, to help them get along, but unfortunately, when he was walking to a platform where his seat was, someone decided to shoot Gandhi three times, but right before he died, he called out, Hey Rama, which means O God!  He dedicated his life to God and others.

It helps to lose ourselves in the service of others, because it is what it is about. helping others as you would have done for yourself. He overcame the world. just like Jesus did. he did it by doing service for others.

DougE6:
Hi Jesse

--- Quote ---Doug,I've been wondering this lately, as I have been pondering having children in the future. How would I raise them, if Babylon is a necessary step? How will I teach them the truths of God?
--- End quote ---
This is one of the very reasons I asked this question!! If Babylon is a necessary step, what do we do? I have three kids, now 19, 16, and 11.  The 19 and 16 year old know what I believe very well.  My older two understand and I think it will stay with them.  My 19 year old is wrestling with the world, she knows my beliefs very well, and I have a very good relationship with her that we talk about nearly everything, so I am letting God do his work..But she needs to internalize for herself, and that is part of life..Unfortunately her current boyfriend is agnostic, so there is tug of war, but what is new? there is always tug of war! She knows I would prefer a believer...I just have to exercise faith in God is in control. I am just starting to teach my 11 year old now, in bits and pieces, every few days or so. But we talk about the things of God in my household all the time. My 16 year old loves going to an Assembly of God Youth Group.  He loves the worship and the like, but he can't fathom why they can live with their eternal torment beliefs.  But I am not taking him away from that church, because I am not afraid of them at all, and he must be allowed to experience and compare, as I did, in my 20 years in babylon.  But he has a great leg up, so to speak, because of our many talks and my example...I have him a lot more time than they do!  And it doesn't seem to have hurt him at all, he really loves the things of God.  I think that we must teach by example and by our lives, and trust in the work of God. it seems like many opportunities arise to compare and contrast various doctrines they learn with the scriptures, to discuss amongst the family these things.  I am VERY PASSIONATE in my beliefs and they feel it and know it. they tell me our family is much different than their friends.  I have a lot of faith and I expect them to all go through times of testing, like I have, I just want to ground them as much as possible.  God knows exactly what path each must walk to bring them to where He wants them to go.

DougE6:

--- Quote ---Jesus did not convert anyone while He was on the earth as a human being.  It was only after His resurrection, when the Holy Spirit was given, that the Church was formed and humans began to be converted.  The sequence is that the Father selects and drags one to Jesus; then the Spirit of the Father through Jesus does the converting.  One human is absolutely worthless at converting another human.  As with everything else, all is from the Father.
--- End quote ---
As true as this is, I must say two or three things...(1) We now do have the Holy Spirit given (2) we are instructed to preach by the scriptures...Rom 10:14  How can people have faith in the Lord and ask him to save them, if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear, unless someone tells them?
Rom 10:15  And how can anyone tell them without being sent by the Lord? The Scriptures say it is a beautiful sight to see even the feet of someone coming to preach the good news.
So I disagree that one human is "absolutely worthless" in the process of conversion. We need to hear from other human beings so God can convert. God uses human beings, to do this work. Is that not EXACTLY what that scripture says?

Craig:
John and Doug you are arguing against yourselves.  Mostly right, but enough wrong to hurt.

John what you say is true" a human cannot convert another human"  but God often uses humans to bring about this conversion.  So us humans are not "worthless" in this process.  You are taking the use of humans out of the process when often we are the tool God uses.

Doug you are putting too much emphasis on the humans and preaching.  I'm pulling this number out of my hat but I would say 99% of us are not called to "preach" to anyone or to teach for that matter.  However we all want to do this and fail miserably.  We are called to be a light in a dark world, and if and when God uses us to help as he calls a person to him we should study to show ourselves approved to answer whatever questions come our way.  The best sermons are the ones we live not the ones we talk about.

So you both are at the ends of the same rope, one says do nothing and the other says we do it all; when actually we should be in the middle where God can use us.

JMO
Craig

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