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Author Topic: Unfamiliar Translation  (Read 3414 times)

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Felix

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Unfamiliar Translation
« on: March 16, 2011, 05:47:54 PM »

Hi everyone

My wife has "got hold" of a translation that I am not familiar with. The front of the bible reads:
Holy Bible  From the Ancient Text  George M. Lamsa's Translation from the Aramaic of the Peshitta

Some things in the introduction don't look right to me. But, I read in Isaiah 14:12 where they translated
the Hebrew word "helel" as howl instead of light or star of the morning or shining one. This is in line
with Rays teaching.

Can someone tell me the good, bad, and the ugly of this translation?

Felix
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daywalker

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Re: Unfamiliar Translation
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2011, 05:55:18 PM »


I've never heard of it. Does it have the words "hell" "eternal" and "forever and ever" in it? Just curious...
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Stacey

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Re: Unfamiliar Translation
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2011, 06:39:48 PM »

Hi Felix,

I never heard of that translation before. Google search on Lamsa came up with a lot about him and he had some strange beliefs so I'm sure they spilled over into his interpretation of the scriptures and also he believed he was the only person capable of properly translating the scriptures according to what I read. Besides that there is this,

Quote
Lamsa focuses on man as his own savior rather than viewing Jesus Christ in that role.


from one of the sites I read about him. I wonder what he did with all the scriptures that say Jesus is the Savior of all?

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Stacey

Felix

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Re: Unfamiliar Translation
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2011, 12:17:21 PM »

Thank you for your replies. I apprecieate it.

Daywalker: It uses sheol instead of hell in the New Testament. Eternal is in there, I didn't have time to
see if it has forever and ever.

Stacey: "Man as savior" sounds like he believes in free will. If it is our decision that saves us then we
would have the power to save ourselves.

John: In the introduction it disputes that the New Testament was written originally in Greek, but in
Aramaic. That's good advice, I'll do a word search on Peshitta.

Felix
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daywalker

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Re: Unfamiliar Translation
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2011, 03:00:50 PM »

In regards to "Aramaic", I think Ray talks a bit about it in a few places. To my understanding, it is basically a sloppy form of Hebrew that appeared during the time when the Jews were under Babylonian captivity. Seeing that many scholars/historians believe that Jesus spoke Aramaic (though I'm sure he was multi-lingual), it wouldn't surprise me if at least some of the New Testament was written in Aramaic. However, the oldest manuscripts that we have to-date are Greek, and I think it's safe to say God planned it that way.

The important part is that the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts harmonize well, and those who translate honestly can show this. Sheol and Hades both have carry the same meaning which is "unseen or imperceptible". Gehenna is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew Ge-Hinnom (Hinnom Ravine or Valley). The Hebrew olam translates to aion or aionios in Greek, which translates to eon or eonian (or age, age-abiding) in English.

The amazing, and perhaps ironic thing these days, is the more Science prevails over Religion, the more accurate our English Bibles are getting. God-forbid the Church ever regained as much control over bible translating as they once had. Though it's true even the most accurately-translated bible can still be misinterpreted, at least the basic truths (like there's no such thing as eternal hell) are leaking out for all to see. Even though people may still fall for other false teachings, the knowledge that God truly is our Loving Father and Jesus Christ truly is our Savior of the World can only do good to this dark world.
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Kat

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Re: Unfamiliar Translation
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2011, 01:49:12 PM »


Hi Felix,

This email was concerning the Peshitta translation.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=1449.0 ---------

Dear ch:

If Dr. Lamsa is a scholar, then I am a brain surgeon.

First, of all, the Peshitta is more modern than the King James Bible. You assumed that the New Testament was originally written in Aramaic. Where is there proof of this?  And even if it was, there are NO ARAMAIC copies of any such Aramaic New Testament signatures.

The Pehsitta is a translation FROM GREEK into Syriac which was not a known language until 300 AD.  Of what value is a Version that was translated from Greek, to Syriac, to English, over an English Version translated directly from the best and oldest known Greek manuscripts?
v
v
I have already read a great deal on the subject, and I can't find ANY proof that the Aramaic or the Peshitta were written and copied from prior oritinal Hebrew and Aramaic signatures.
v
v
Greek was most assuredly spoken in Palestine during the first century A.D.  Remember that that Alexander conquered Egypt centuries before Christ, and Greek was spoken from Egypt to India!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is from the conference 'How We Got the Bible.'

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.0.html -----------

Now the first real translation that we can follow back in any language, that has been reproduced like the Greek manuscripts, would be the Vulgate in 382AD.  But we are back 200 years before that and possibly the oldest translation from the Greek known, is the Peshito/Peshitta.  It was translated from Greek into Syriac as early as 160-180 AD.  Some refer to it as the Aramaic, but it’s Syriac.  They don’t have a copy that goes back that far, but they have a historian quoting from the Peshito in Syriac in 1660 AD or somewhere in that area.  So if he is quoting from it, it must have existed, see what I’m saying.  But the earliest copy that they have is maybe around the 5th century or so.  Pershito means - simple or easy to understand.  So it’s a very precise, almost word for word translation. 
This is a English  translation of the Peshito, it’s called the ’Queen of the Versions’ and  ‘The Syriac Vulgate.’   The reason they call it the Syriac Vulgate is because it apparently was a renovation of all these poorly done scriptures that were floating around. 
Some say this was translated at Antioch.  Remember in the Scripture the followers of Jesus Christ were first called Christians at Antioch.  So it would make sense that they would want to have a translation of Scripture in their native tongue. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope this helps.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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kswaby10

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barrabus

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Re: Unfamiliar Translation
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2011, 01:21:03 AM »

I have recently come across a paper referring to "Shem-Tov's Hebrew Matthew" ... it claims that Matthew was origionally written in Hebrew and makes a pretty good case... but since I don't know how to read Greek or Hebrew... I just pray for guidance from God... anyone else heard about it...
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daywalker

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Re: Unfamiliar Translation
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2011, 01:55:42 PM »

I have recently come across a paper referring to "Shem-Tov's Hebrew Matthew" ... it claims that Matthew was origionally written in Hebrew and makes a pretty good case... but since I don't know how to read Greek or Hebrew... I just pray for guidance from God... anyone else heard about it...

I haven't, but I'm sure it's the same as with Aramaic. Whether the N.T. was originally written in Hebrew, Aramaic or some other language, the oldest manuscripts that we have are in Greek. Until someone discovers older manuscripts of the New Covenant Scriptures written in a non-Greek language, it's all just opinion and speculation.

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