"The Remnant of His Heritage"

[Hopeful]

"Who is a God like to you, that pardons iniquity, and passes by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retains not his anger for ever, because he delights in mercy."
-Micah 7:18

One of my Calvinist ex-associates sent me this verse in an email. He claimed that it proved that the Atonement was limited to just the elect and no more. I don't know how to respond. What should I do?

I'm sorry to bug you guys with this. 

[mharrell08]

What should I do?

You don't have to do anything in regards to this associate. You seem to be in the very early stages of learning these truths, so just continue to study the scriptures and read from the site (www.bible-truths.com). Eventually, you'll learn exactly how to answer anyone who questions your beliefs.

[bpenelli]

1 John 2:2 (King James Version)

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Brad

[Hopeful]

What should I do?

You don't have to do anything in regards to this associate. You seem to be in the very early stages of learning these truths, so just continue to study the scriptures and read from the site (www.bible-truths.com). Eventually, you'll learn exactly how to answer anyone who questions your beliefs.

I know I don't have to answer, but the point is that he is sowing doubts in my already weary and much-abused mind. I want assurance of God's love to all men and to me in particular, and these things are helping to plant seeds of doubt in my mind. I don't want to go back to the way it used to be, constantly cowering in terror before an arbitrary and cruel God who was going to hurl the vast majority of His own children into endless agony for not being one of His favorites and calling it "justice" and even Himself "love". It reduced me to a quivering, depressed wreck over many years of association. I was on the verge of suicide many times, held back only by the threat of endless torment. I do not wish to be dragged back to that bondage.

[mharrell08]

I know I don't have to answer, but the point is that he is sowing doubts in my already weary and much-abused mind. I want assurance of God's love to all men and to me in particular, and these things are helping to plant seeds of doubt in my mind.

You've got to read the site Hopeful, and study your bible. You're in no position to answer someone when you don't understand yourself. If you truly want assurance, you'll put the work in to read and study.

[Hopeful]

I know I don't have to answer, but the point is that he is sowing doubts in my already weary and much-abused mind. I want assurance of God's love to all men and to me in particular, and these things are helping to plant seeds of doubt in my mind.

You've got to read the site Hopeful, and study your bible. You're in no position to answer someone when you don't understand yourself. If you truly want assurance, you'll put the work in to read and study.

I am. Still, assurance yet eludes me. I was on this site for several weeks prior to actually joining up on this forum. I don't mean to bother you, but studying by myself has yet to give me what I crave so badly. Again, I'm sorry if I bother you. 

[mharrell08]

I am. Still, assurance yet eludes me. I was on this site for several weeks prior to actually joining up on this forum. I don't mean to bother you, but studying by myself has yet to give me what I crave so badly. Again, I'm sorry if I bother you. 

You're not a bother Hopeful but a tad impatient. There is no such thing as 'instant' assurance or trust. God talks about faith being like a mustard seed, that though the smallest of seeds, grows into one of the biggest trees [Mark 4:26-29].

Study & mediate on the scriptures, believe them...continue to read through the material on the website. Eventually your assurance will grow like that mustard seed and you will stand strong in faith.

[Hopeful]

I am. Still, assurance yet eludes me. I was on this site for several weeks prior to actually joining up on this forum. I don't mean to bother you, but studying by myself has yet to give me what I crave so badly. Again, I'm sorry if I bother you. 

You're not a bother Hopeful but a tad impatient. There is no such thing as 'instant' assurance or trust. God talks about faith being like a mustard seed, that though the smallest of seeds, grows into one of the biggest trees [Mark 4:26-29].

Study & mediate on the scriptures, believe them...continue to read through the material on the website. Eventually your assurance will grow like that mustard seed and you will stand strong in faith.

Thanks for that.  I do hope you're right.

[Duane]

One of the reasons that God is going to SAVE THE WHOLE WORLD is that He desires to be praised and worshipped by every being that IS and EVER WAS--and that is kind of a tall order to ask from people suffering eternally in HELL!

[Extol]

Hi Hopeful,

Marques is right that there's no such thing as "instant" assurance. It takes time to learn these things. I've been reading Bible Truths for five years and one month, and I still feel like there is so much I don't know. In fact, I know less now (even after 5 years, 1 month) than I thought I knew before I even came to BT. But I wouldn't trade the little I do understand for all other knowledge in the world. And I know that God will be faithful and finish the work He started in me.

It's good that you want to believe, but you must be patient. No amount of hunger will grant instant knowledge and understanding; if you are truly hungry you will put in the study, and it will be worthwhile:

Happy those hungering and thirsting for righteousness -- because they shall be filled.--Matthew 5:6

Think of a college freshman who wants to study aerospace engineering. He is passionate about the subject, he's devoted, and he's brilliant. BUT...these qualities, admirable though they be, are not going to earn him a Ph.D in rocket science after one semester.

Here we are dealing with truths that are far deeper (and far more valuable) than rocket science!

[Marky Mark]

I know I don't have to answer, but the point is that he is sowing doubts in my already weary and much-abused mind. I want assurance of God's love to all men and to me in particular, and these things are helping to plant seeds of doubt in my mind.

1Jn 4:18 Fear is not in love, but perfect love is casting out fear, for fear has chastening. Now he who is fearing is not perfected in love."

1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
Jas 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

Act 1:8  But ye shall receive power when the Holy Spirit cometh upon you, and ye shall be my witnesses, both in Jerusalem and in all Judaea and Samaria and as far as the uttermost part of the land.

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

1Co 15:23  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24  Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.



Peace...Mark

[lauriellen]

I remember listening to one of Ray's audio's and he said something to the effect that, when you are challenged by anyone about your belief in the salvation of all, the only answer you have to give is "God is Love." period. there is no scripture that says that "God is not Love."....and Love never fails.
Someone else may be able to direct you to that study. I have never forgotten Rays simple reassuring answer. Love truely does cast out all fear & doubt.
peace to you,
lauriellen

[G. Driggs]

"Who is a God like to you, that pardons iniquity, and passes by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retains not his anger for ever, because he delights in mercy."
-Micah 7:18

One of my Calvinist ex-associates sent me this verse in an email. He claimed that it proved that the Atonement was limited to just the elect and no more. I don't know how to respond. What should I do?

I dont think there is a need to respond to your Calvinist ex-associate. You are the one in doubt, so dispel your doubt with the truth.

Ray says (which he proves through the bible) we need at least two witnesses to establish truth. Micah 7:18 is only part of the truth. God not only forgives the sins of His remnant, but He also forgives the sins of all through the blood of Christ.

Rom 3:22  Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24  Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25  Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26  To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

1Jn 2:1  My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2  And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Mercy is not only for the remnant.

Rom 11:32  For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Pro 16:6  By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.

It would really help to think positive. Dwelling on negative lies (i.e. eternal torture) will only hold you back. Think of the good things God is, like love as others have mentioned.

Php 4:8  Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Pro 23:7  For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:

Try it.

Sincerely hope this helps.

G.Driggs

[chav]

Hi
So much sound advice here and I totally agree, it takes a long time to be finally rid of Babylon and its evil teachings but once you finally get out it's liberating.So just persevere and you will get to that place of peace and freedom eventually.
Dave

[mharrell08]

I remember listening to one of Ray's audio's and he said something to the effect that, when you are challenged by anyone about your belief in the salvation of all, the only answer you have to give is "God is Love." period. there is no scripture that says that "God is not Love."....and Love never fails.

Hopeful,

I believe Lauriellen is referring to the 'Fundamental Truths' bible study: Transcript & Audio.

[Samson]

I remember listening to one of Ray's audio's and he said something to the effect that, when you are challenged by anyone about your belief in the salvation of all, the only answer you have to give is "God is Love." period. there is no scripture that says that "God is not Love."....and Love never fails.

Hopeful,

I believe Lauriellen is referring to the 'Fundamental Truths' bible study: Transcript & Audio.

Hi Hopeful,

Listen to the counsel presented by Marques, study the Scriptures, meditate on them, examine the material, remember: The sum of God's word is truth and no Scripture is it's own interpretation, you need 2 or more scriptural witnesses to firmly establish a matter, compare spiritual with spiritual, First comes the Physical and then the Spiritual. Keep that last phase in mind when examining the false teaching of "Eternal" Punishment in all it's various forms. Remember that all Bible Translations & Versions are capable for obtaining Truth. If one main translation error was corrected in all of them, they would all be mostly accurate with only minor mistakes. That main error is translating the Greek word Aion and it's derivatives Aions & Aionios to falsely mean Eternal, Everlasting & Forever. Aion is An Age or Eon; Aions is Ages or Eons and Aionios(The adjective) is Eonian or Age-lasting. Ray brings this out in the Topic: Which bible Translation is Best. Also Read: 12 Truths to Understanding God's Word and the Article mentioned in Marques Post above: Seven foundational Truths.

Also, Your Calvinist "friend" believes that everything is predetermined or predestined and Man has no free will or free moral agency, so in that aspect, We at Bible Truths agree with this. It was predetermined that you would find this Site and discover Truth, that your EX-Associates would be displeased, so what's the worry, Your only making the choices as a result of the causes that occurred in your life, so there's nothing they can do to stop what God has predetermined in your life. Don't worry, It's God's Pleasure, Will, Desire that ALL Mankind is Saved and that NONE Perish or are destroyed. There is no Scripture that says God DOESN'T Will that all Men are saved and that He desires some or all to be destroyed. Since the Bible says that God does not Lie, it would make Him liar if He didn't Save all.

                        Hope This Helps, Samson.

[arion]

Hopeful'

If you haven't read it yet read the '12 truths to understanding God's word' on the website.  This will help you put some meat on the bones.  I agree with Marques and others that you have to be patient and God will bring you along at the speed he has determined for you and for most of us it does take time.  Ray's tithing paper was what first brought me to the website and I couldn't argue with the scriptures and the way he put them together.  Then when I read that Ray didn't believe or teach in the Christian 'hell' I left the website and didn't come back for almost a year.  I thought 'even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then'.  How could anyone be a Christian and not believe in hell?  But, God was working on me and a year later I came back and read the LOF series and have been here ever since.  We live in an instant society where we want it now and I certainly wanted not only an understanding of these truths NOW but assurance from any doubts as well. 

Ray has a saying that says 'if something you study is true the more studying you do the more it is proven to be true.  If something you study is false the more true study you do proves it to be false.'  In time you will have these truths proven to your inner man and you won't have to question them anymore.  It takes a long time for most of us to come out from under the false teaching we have been in.  I remember crying out to God that I just wanted the truth....whatever it is.  My angst is that I had believed falsehood in the past so how could I know that what I learned here was the truth?  The truth is built line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little as we can accept it.  God will bring you to where you need to be when you need to be there.  Would a loving heavenly father and shepherd of the sheep not lead his lambs to safety? 

[Duane]

I feel a need to share a little about myself if it will help and be an encouragement to others. 
My father was a Baptist minister and both my parents are graduates of Moody Bible Institute.  I attended a semester at Baptist Bible
Seminary and Bob Jones University.  So I am FULLY acquainted with the "Church of Babylon" and it's teachings.
Therefore, I was introduced to this Web-site and read for 14 straight hours as I couldn't stop reading!  I ALSO had to FIGHT tooth and
nail WITH EVERY SINGLE new doctrine until all-of-a -sudden like a light from heaven-it all fell into place!  Oh, the agnst and struggles as the new learning challenged the old!  I just couldn't argue with the overwhelming scriptural evidence presented with each postulation.
SOOO, I truly identify with each and every one that is going through the "rejuvenation" process. Don't feel discouraged if you stumble,
question and doubt--it's all in the process.  Some, like above, have even left for a time before being DRAWN back.  It takes time to "wrap your mind" around it all and sometimes you DO have to take a break for it all to settle.  Don't give up.
I thank God that HE had patience with me as He opened up my eyes!  I feel like one "of the few who are chosen" to understand.

[gmik]

Hopeful, you are in growing pains and we all went/will go thru---sometimes when one aspect settles in quite nicely, our beast rears its ugly head in another area.  Read Paul's epistles...he struggled and so will we.

We don't have to try to SAVE the world....yahooooooooooooo

Let others have their silly beliefs..just be a good friend/or whatever and show love.

Everytime I open my mouth and say something, I always wish I wouldn't have.  ha

You were drawn here....take joy that the Father is working in your life!

[Samson]

Hopeful, you are in growing pains and we all went/will go thru---sometimes when one aspect settles in quite nicely, our beast rears its ugly head in another area.  Read Paul's epistles...he struggled and so will we.

We don't have to try to SAVE the world....yahooooooooooooo

Let others have their silly beliefs..just be a good friend/or whatever and show love.

Everytime I open my mouth and say something, I always wish I wouldn't have.  ha

You were drawn here....take joy that the Father is working in your life!

Amen to the above Gena, I don't want the responsibility of " Trying to Save the World," That's the Job of Jesus(1 John. 4:14) and He is more than capable of accomplishing this task. Insert Foot in Mouth, Samson is guilty as charged too.

                           Thanks Gena, Samson.