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Author Topic: Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?  (Read 7113 times)

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moxicarose

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Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
« on: April 05, 2011, 04:14:01 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg-qgmJ7nzA


Is it just me, or did the interviewer have a very harsh attitude toward Mr. Bell from the get go? I have not read Bell's book (yet).

Has anyone here read it?

I know that Rob seemed not to (really)answer the questions at times, and that bugged me a little bit...but I applaud him for having a loving and kind demeanor the entire interview.

Thoughts?
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mharrell08

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Re: Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2011, 04:43:20 PM »

I actually think he did well in the interview...as well as one could do when facing tough questions. It's the interviewer's job to ask tough questions, that's not the problem. The only problem is he does not yet have the answers for these tough questions, but that will come in time.

I think it would be great for Rob to eventually get in touch with teachers like Ray and continue in his studies of earlier scholars who believed in universal salvation. He's definitely on the right track, when you compare what he teaches now to what he used to teach. We all have to start somewhere.

I also wonder with all the attention and controversy, how much time is he getting to study and continue to seek these truths out? Things may have to die down before he can really dig into the scriptures and have precise, firm answers for those who question his message. I can definitely see this becoming similar to the apostle Paul, with a loss of church members (maybe even his church) and really a complete spiritual fall, then God 'resurrecting' him into a new creature with a full, complete, precise message of the gospel. We can only hope...



Marques
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2011, 04:50:18 PM »

You said it, Marques.

Moxicarose, there was this thread recently:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12846.0.html

I don't fault the journalist.  I think he had intelligent and probing questions that any 'doubter' or skeptic might ask when encountering the gospel of reconciliation.  Obviously he had done his homework.  If Mr. Bell can't handle that, he should probably stop trying to teach--at least for the time being.  I also think he handled himself well.

I think Mr. Bell has no idea yet just how challenging and exciting this walk can be.  Of course, neither does the journalist.   ;D :D

Jesus is Lord.  
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 04:56:32 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Samson

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Re: Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2011, 07:52:49 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg-qgmJ7nzA


Is it just me, or did the interviewer have a very harsh attitude toward Mr. Bell from the get go? I have not read Bell's book (yet).

Has anyone here read it?

I know that Rob seemed not to (really)answer the questions at times, and that bugged me a little bit...but I applaud him for having a loving and kind demeanor the entire interview.

Thoughts?


I guess that I would have to read His book to see how far along He is. I liked the point He made about " everything is handed down" to each and everyone one of us making us who we are contributing to Our personal journey(not exact words), but that point towards the end of the interview sounds like the CAUSE/AFFECT relationship.

I don't think those T.V. interviews are productive due to time constraints, either or type questions. The interviewer asked if there was any benefit in this Life in regards to doing whats right now or something along those lines. Of course We know there is ! His ( The Interviewer) question reminds Me of the " Being Saved Anyway" response to Universalism.

When Your interviewed in one of these T.V. News Type situations, They dictate the Time allowed & make the rules as to how far you can go with your response, so the T.V. Viewer is left with an insufficient response at best. We can only hope that Seeds are planted & Rob Bell continues in this direction.

                             Carry On, Samson.
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indianabob

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Re: Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2011, 08:21:11 PM »

Folks,

I think that the interviewers first question was designed to elicit confusion.
To ask whether one of two possibilities is correct when neither is true is misleading.

1. Is God powerful enough to prevent an earthquake near Japan, but does not because he doesn't care?
OR
2. Does God care about the Japanese people, but is not powerful enough to prevent the earthquake?

Not quoting scripture in this instance, but the truth is most likely closer to the following.

God has a plan for all mankind and he is letting it play out without always intervening at this time.
God made the earth the way it is and it is stretching and groaning because of the sub-terrainian lava
under the oceans and the movement of so called continental plates submerging other plates.
That the Japanese built cities three meters above average sea level is not God's responsibility.
If God led them to do so that is another question.

That Japanese corporations built the atomic reactors with just enough stability to cope with
an expected 100 year earthquake is not God's responsibility. The corporation hedged their bets
and lost. Of course God may have had His hand in it to teach a lesson.
In similar manner 104 reactors in the U. S. A. are engineered with "just enough" safety
built in to hold together in a predictable earthquake.

I'm not sure, but I would think subject to correction, that much of human activity is more risky
than God would recommend. We make choices.
Whether they are led by God's influence in subject to controversy.
In either case above God will as Mr. Bell said, finish the creation process in true Godly love.

Subject to editing by Mods, Bob
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Joel

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Re: Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2011, 11:43:38 PM »

The same Bible that says "God is Love" also says in Exodus 15:3 The Lord is a man of war: the Lord is his name. and there is no contradiction when scriptures are rightly divided.

Abraham asked the Lord before he destroyed Sodom, Genisis 18:25 : Shall not the judge of all the earth do right?

People have been dieing by one means or another since the days of Adam, when death was pronounced upon mankind. And so it will be, until Jesus returns and death and hell are cast into the LOF.

We all will understand some day, just how Loving God really is, and that day is closer than when we first believed.

Blessings to all that God uses to shed light, especially Ray Smith. :)

Joel


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moxicarose

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Re: Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2011, 01:18:15 AM »

I used to have to sit through his Numa videos back when I worked with a youth group at a big church.. :-\ I always felt like he said a whole lot of words, but never really said anything...

But, 'ministers of gawd' as you say, John from Kentucky, have no idea that they are tools of Satan. I feel for Mr. Bell, because I actually think that there's a glimmer there. A glimmer of the truth planted in his heart, and he's possibly just following his old formula for how to share what he believes. So he sells his book, and goes in front of millions on t.v. We don't know for sure if it's only going to obscure or abase truth..it might be what God is using to plant more seed in His elect that are still in the system. I guess really all I'm saying is, for some reason God has softened my heart toward Rob, and I have been praying for him.

 
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phillip78

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Re: Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2011, 10:34:40 AM »

Rob Bell still believes in free will. Anyone who believes that has lost an awful lot of credibility with me.
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markn902

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Re: Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2011, 09:33:46 PM »

I have never heard of Rob Bell or Mars Hill must be some big church I will state my opinions on the interview though

1. I think that people,media, whatever, love labels and if someone is doing something different they need to label that person something. in this case a "universalist" because , well he has to be something right?

2. This is really part of a trend "non denominational" churches are leaning towards as information becomes much more easy to get. It would not take someone who is objectively looking very long to find out there is no hell. So churches have tried a softer approach like "hell is being away from god" etc.. there is a list of nicer alternatives that I have heard. And I think this is just following that trend. Pastors want to say that Jesus will save everyone while still pointing out that they need church (their church) to be saved.   

I don't know just my opinion I didn't even finish watching it..really it's just a promo for his book that he is selling.. whatever
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gmik

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Re: Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2011, 09:38:35 PM »

Philip adn Moxie--I read the new book twice...I loved it....but oh yes, he doesn't have a clue on some things....but his peeling off layers of who you are and who you want to become are jewels...I sobbed reading his version of the prodigal son...I recommend it w/ the caveat that yes he is a free-willer (for now)

About 6 years ago I 'stumbled' on him before I found Ray...I read his early book "The Velvet Elvis"....again I was searching and God used this in my life to take me a little bit out of traditional Babylonian thinking...so when I found BT I was ready for it. So even tho I don't believe a lot in where Bell is at spiritually, I carry a soft spot in my heart, and I pray that God will drag him to teachers like Ray...Rob is close he just needs a push and maybe pray for him.  Why should we be the only ones to hear the truth?

PS  today I saw him on youtube-not the interview-just him telling what he believes!  Yuck!!  He didn't defend salvation for everyone and no hell at all....dang, very disappointing but what I said above about the book was true for me- maybe I just needed it for a heart check up!!
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 12:56:49 AM by gmik »
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mharrell08

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Re: Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2011, 09:44:07 PM »

Belief in the salvation of all mankind and the belief that mankind has a free will are contrary to one another. Part of the free will myth is that people's choices have yet to be determined. There would be no way for anyone or anything to declare all will choose 1 particular choice, since nothing would be able to influence that choice. It would be a huge 'wait and see' event and God does not wait and see for anything.

Now then, what does this have to do with Rob Bell? Well, the fact that he is now teaching all will be saved and supposedly also teaching all will make this choice 'freely' only proves that he is only scratching the surface of the Truths of God. And the reason why I say 'supposedly' is because I don't know what his current opinion of free will is, but his teaching of all will be saved is much more recent.

We all have to begin to scratch the surface somewhere. When I was first led to this site, I got to know Ray's paper on Tithing, front to back, but wouldn't dare look at his Trinity paper. But that wasn't the end of the road that God had me on and this may not be the end for Rob Bell either. We just don't know yet.

It's easy for us to deal with a few people, a small handful of family and friends giving us grief over our beliefs. Imagine if it were hundreds or even thousands? People we didn't even know lambasting us because we had to audacity to believe that God's Love will 'win out'? And this is AFTER we filled the airwaves and gained a huge following with a message that was opposite in every way. Similar to what I said before, this has the potential to be the most modern example of the apostle Paul that anyone has ever seen. Just the potential alone demands patience from all of our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Long story short, let's try to look at this with a touch of optimism. Does that mean anyone in the Mars Hill area join the church? No, that's not necessary. But we can continue to keep tabs and see where all this leads to, because right now, this is only a small mustard seed with potential to be a huge tree [Mk 4:31-32].


Marques
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Rene

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Re: Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2011, 12:23:53 PM »


Similar to what I said before, this has the potential to be the most modern example of the apostle Paul that anyone has ever seen. Just the potential alone demands patience from all of our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Marques


Hi Marques,

Interesting thought.  I previously read right over this idea when you mentioned it early on in this thread. :P

I did not know who Rob Bell was until recently.  After watching the interview, I felt a sense of compassion for this man, although he was not able to defend his new found belief.  I, personally, am hopeful his eyes are being opened and perhaps he will be lead here to BT.:)

René
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daywalker

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Re: Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2011, 02:02:08 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg-qgmJ7nzA


Is it just me, or did the interviewer have a very harsh attitude toward Mr. Bell from the get go? I have not read Bell's book (yet).

Has anyone here read it?

I know that Rob seemed not to (really)answer the questions at times, and that bugged me a little bit...but I applaud him for having a loving and kind demeanor the entire interview.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that Rob wasn't as prepared for this interview as he should have been. This reporter asked loaded questions that he should have been able to expose. For example, my response to the reporter's first question regarding Japan would have been "Neither are true". And then explained that God is all-powerful, and also all-loving and merciful and that He will console these Japanese people. I would have also said that if God wasn't all-powerful than He isn't God and we should all be atheists.

But to be fair to Mr. Bell, it's much easier to speculate based on what I saw, than to actually be cast live into the fire, so to speak.  ;D :D

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mharrell08

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Re: Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2011, 02:37:49 AM »

"...this has the potential to be the most modern example of the apostle Paul that anyone has ever seen."  Really?  Steady on.  From reading Paul's writings, I cannot imagine him being tripped up by such a simple interview.

And why would you expect perfection from Rob Bell? Almost every member here can recall falling flat on their face when attempting to preach to family & friends about the true gospel.

Why should we be so closed-minded from one simple interview? Jesus likened the Kingdom of God to a small seed growing into a great tree...why would we expect an instant, great tree? These things take time to develop.

Jesus asked that when He returned, 'would He find faith on the earth?'  Hardly an indication of any significant turning to the truths of God in the end times.

How would one preacher be a "significant turning"? Jesus also told the Pharisees their house would be left desolate and would not see Him again until they were ready to pronounce "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord" [Matt 23:39].

Paul was a Pharisee...did this statement apply to him too? Or did Jesus pick him for the express purpose of 'showing many things to suffer for the name of Jesus' [Acts 9:16] as well as being 'a pattern to those who are going to believe in Jesus' [1 Tim 1:16]. One out of many, no matter how famous that one is, is still a Few.

Wake me up when minister Bell stops charging money for the truths of God that he thinks he knows.  Remember, "Freely you received, freely give."
Bell's selling his knowledge of the scriptures does not make him a follower of Paul, much less of Jesus.

John

John, you don't want to be 'woken up' because Bell doesn't conform to your expectations. How arrogant can one be to expect a potential new convert to practice every single belief as an elder in the Word? Why in the world, would anyone in their right mind, expect someone like this to be just like Ray? Do you really think Ray or Paul or Peter had ALL the answers right out of the gate?

You see, when the rubber hits the road, the religious hobbyists jump off the bandwagon. Never fails. I've read over dozens of unscriptural, borderline heretical comments from forum members for more than 3 years. And I'm just talking about the things that other members will fawn over and not see error.

Now someone with the audacity to preach all will be saved and you nitpick because his book cost $12? How much did you spend on internet access just to read from bible-truths.com?

My point is, we just have to have perspective. There's a whole world out there that God is choosing His people from, not just this tiny forum community.


Marques

P.S. If we want to nitpick these pastors who have recently had a change of heart and are preaching universal salvation, at least make the effort to contact them to express your concerns. Be proactive and not simply sit back and stew in pessimism.

If God is changing us, why doubt He is changing these preachers?
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Kat

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Re: Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2011, 10:49:13 AM »


It's just to early to tell with this guy, so why speak so disparagingly about him. Maybe God is just opening his eyes, He does not reveal all truths at once. Or doesn't anybody remember our own beginning and the slow process of unlearning the old as we put on the new? If these are baby steps he is making, think where he could be when he is given an little more understanding.

There is no rush to judgment from me, as it will become apparent in time.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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dave

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Re: Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2011, 02:49:40 PM »

Thanks Kat :)
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DougE6

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Re: Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2011, 08:14:34 PM »

Anybody who will put their entire lifes work at risk and suffer the risk of real persecution, loss of job, prestige, friends, and position, to preach that Jesus will save all is all right by me. I pray that Rob Bell will stay this course and not be turned aside in his growth, and by the very real losses he may endure.  If it is God's will He will learn all about Gods sovereignity too. But this is a HUGE step in the right direction.

Also, speaking as one who has supported Ray with more than just my words, I don't have a problem with selling books. It is much easier to read books than a computer screen.  Even as I say this, I respect Ray's stance and completely understand it.  But if he had all his works, in a book format, for sale, I would be willing to pay a price for it.

I have given to Ray because I OWE him. If I can help him in some way, in his very real needs, as he has helped me, in my very real needs, COOL.
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markn902

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Re: Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2011, 08:23:33 PM »

Well I can say this..after this post I am looking at big name pastors individually now as opposed to lumping them all together in a "chri$tian is a bu$$ine$$" pile. I am still skeptical though.. Greedy moneymakers fooling the masses..Can't think of one that "turned"  away from that willingly.. My gut tells me this is more of the same.

Is it even possible to have a big church teaching the truth? I would think that history shows a very small, mostly unpopular, group or groups that taught truth. Maybe this a beginning of something I don't know. Maybe it is just a public figure whose journey is visible.

I guess only Rob Bell knows what Rob Bell is thinking maybe someone should email him? I would be curious to hear his personal response. Maybe he would say that's why he wrote a book  :D  

Oh well I guess time will tell lets hope for the best  :)
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aqrinc

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Re: Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2011, 09:26:11 PM »


Seems that Rob Bell is willing to put what he has been shown to the test, without fear of loss. I have followed this from early on, and have no problem with supporting Mr Bell in his newly opened knowledge, still halting, but nonetheless eye opening to many, who none on this forum has reached presently.

Luk 9:49-50 (MKJV)
49  And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out demons in Your name. And we prevented him, because he does not follow us. 50  And Jesus said to him, Do not prevent him, for he who is not against us is for us.

george ;D.
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mharrell08

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Re: Anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2011, 09:40:49 PM »


Seems that Rob Bell is willing to put what he has been shown to the test, without fear of loss. I have followed this from early on, and have no problem with supporting Mr Bell in his newly opened knowledge, still halting, but nonetheless eye opening to many, who none on this forum has reached presently.

Luk 9:49-50 (MKJV)
49  And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out demons in Your name. And we prevented him, because he does not follow us. 50  And Jesus said to him, Do not prevent him, for he who is not against us is for us.

george ;D.


Great reminder George...that scripture hits it on the head exactly.
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