Testimony - Work in Progress

[JohnMichael]

Hello All,

I wasn't sure where to put this - Introductions or here - so I hope I didn't put it in the wrong place. Please forgive me if I did. I don't know what it is I'm seeking by posting this. Maybe God wants to use this to strengthen and comfort someone reading this. I don't know. All I know is that I feel led to make this post, and I come before you with a broken heart and a contrite spirit. I hope to God that I don't come across as prideful or arrogant or in any other self-glorifying manner. I really do want to follow in His footsteps.

I wrote Ray an email a while back, and if he's reading this, he may remember me. He responded to my email which I was very surprised by. I told him of how I am a homosexual, and how I prayed for years for God to cleanse me. I have confessed my sin to my previous pastors, and I have genuinely sought deliverance. I have begged and pleaded, cried and groaned to God. I have thrown myself on the altar in prayer countless times. I was always one of the firsts to come when the altar was opened (Pentecostal church service). I have had many elders pray over me with the laying on of hands. However, still "For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin [is] ever before me" (Psalms 51:3, KJV).

I dare to hope and believe with all my heart that God is working in me still. I beg Him regularly to please don't give me over to a reprobate mind; I don't want to be in the resurrection of the unjust. I believe the Good Gospel of my Lord, God, Savior, and Master Jesus Christ. I can understand Ray's papers. I have cast aside the doctrines of devils (Hell, Free Will, Materialistic Heaven, etc). I dare to hope that maybe, just maybe, I will be found blameless before Him someday. I pray every day, several times a day, thanking Him for His blessings, and asking for forgiveness for my sins. I know it's a simplistic analogy, but I feel a lot like a child who wants to crawl into his Father's lap and just cry. I can hear His voice chastising me when I do something wrong such as speaking in anger or when pride tries to creep in. Thus far, God has instilled in me the knowledge of my sin, but He has not commanded yet that I stop (I'm currently in a relationship, and I do love my boyfriend very much). I was a practitioner of witchcraft for many years after leaving the church, and God dealt with me and told me I needed to stop. It started out as a firm, still, small voice in my spirit saying, "You know that's wrong." After a while (a period of months), it changed to, "You need to start trusting in Me again, and leave that behind now." I stopped immediately, and I give all glory to God because I know it was Him who delivered me not myself. Therefore, I wonder if, as in the situation with the sin of witchcraft, God is laying the foundation right now to build upon later (if that makes sense).

I have been raped, beaten (physically and emotionally), betrayed by "friends," abandoned by "friends," badmouthed, and publicly ridiculed. I have HIV. I smoke. I bear my crosses of sickness, smoking, and homosexuality daily. Even though, according to man, I have every reason to be bitter, hateful, and jaded, I still thank God for His Goodness, Grace, Love, and Mercy every chance I get. I have lived both sides of the verse, "Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder" (Luke 20:18, KJV). Admittedly though, there have been times when I have said, "God, you said you'd never put more on me than I could bear, but sometimes, I wish you didn't have so much faith in me," but then I remember "For whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth" (Hebrews 12:6, KJV), and I get a glimpse of hope.

I still wonder though in the still of the night which resurrection I will be in. I know I'm not worthy to even hold His sandals. I know I am as excrement in His sight. I don't have to be told that I'm disgusting or dirty or repulsive. I know all too well that I am.

However, I desperately cling to verses such as:

"And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table" (Matthew 15:27, KJV).

"But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom" (Luke 23:40-42, KJV).

"The sacrifices of God [are] a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise" (Psalm 51:17, KJV).

"To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified" (Isaiah 61:3, KJV).

...like a drowning person clings to a life raft, or a person clings to a telephone pole when whipped about by winds in a tornado/hurricane.

I feel very much like the woman who came to anoint Jesus' feet. I know I'm not worthy to, but I want to. I break down in tears when I think of how He died for me, and how broken and weak I am in repayment of that Sacrifice. I can only hope in the knowledge that God sees my heart, and that that will not be cast aside in the Day of our Lord's return. I can only hope...

May "The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace." (Numbers 6:24-26, KJV)

In all things, Thy will be done, Lord.
Amen in Jesus' name,
John

[Ireland]

Hi John, I just want to acknowledge your contrite heart and that you seem to really want to be hid in Christ. All of us here are struggling with some form of sin in our lives and longing to be perfected. You are aware of your situation in this relationship so I will not elaborate. I would never condone that behavior so I just pray that God will cause you to stop. Ironic that you have to quit that lifestyle and yet it will be Christ that gives you that strenghth to do it. Dear John, it is the same for us all. The men here may not be homosexuals but I bet most of us struggle with lust after these beautiful things called "Women". We all just have this terrible connection with the flesh. Oh how I despise it and yet the Great "I am" created it so he could conquer it. Bless you in your effort to love Christ and live for him.

[Dave in Tenn]

John, no doubt you know at least some of these verses.

1Co 6:9-11  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.  And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

I also have struggled with what the world would consider 'serious' sins.  Looking at the familiar lists of characters that won't be reigning in the Kingdom, I either literally am or literally have been, in deed or thought, at least 75% of them.  In Spirit, I've been and am all of them--considering where we break the commandment in one, we break it in all.  

I believe I can tell you this as testimony--you are not without hope.

If 100 people had lined up to tell me 'don't do this' while I struggled in the church or succumbed and wallowed in the world for 20 years, I would not have been able to 'stop', even when I wanted to.  I came to believe the Gospel about three years ago now.  Some things have fallen away easily and others the Lord has not removed easily, but has forced me to lean on him and to act in faith.

Some things I haven't begun to tackle.  I know that He works in increments, because I've experienced this--more than once.  

This walk is NOT LIKE my religious past, and the power I have had enabling me to overcome in areas has come as 1.  I get rid of the lies and baggage of babylon, and 2.  Learn the Truths of God, recieving the Spirit of God and the Mind of Christ.  It IS Him working in me.

The other way it is not like my religious past, is that I KNOW that the Lord is not mocked.  He sees the very motives of my heart.  I cannot pull the wool over His eyes or fool Him in any way.  He knows my works, my faith, my desire, my thoughts, my motives--and He is not surprised at anything, including my many failures.  He designed me to fail, and so far I've proved to 'operate within specified parameters.'     He also knows my heart and my state when the Spirit is willing, but flesh is weak.

There's a time and a place for failure, and also a time and a place for 'with Christ I can do all things'.  There is a time to live against the will of God according to His ultimate purpose, and a time to repent.  There is a time coming when your repentance will be effective.  And if you are speaking the truth about your desires, that ought to give you hope.

...such were some of you...but you are washed, you are sanctified, you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of God.  Leave babylon (and all the lies), learn what this means, and live it.

Hang in there, John.    

[judith collier]

JohnMichael, there is one beautiful thing i see about you and that is you love much an doesn't that cover a multutude of sins. No judgement here but i will pray for you, not anything specific just, Lord have mercy on John and all of us.
love, judy

[G. Driggs]

I really do want to follow in His footsteps.

You got it. Ray once said to follow in Jesus' footsteps until we stop sinning. It's a lifelong process, so try to be patient with yourself and with God. We all repent in increments, little by little, one step at a time.

I still wonder though in the still of the night which resurrection I will be in.

More than ever (just recently) I believe we can know IF we are dying to self on a day to day basis.

1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27  But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Php 3:10  That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11  If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12  Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Jas 1:12  Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

I hope this has encouraged you as much as it has me.

Dont worry about it, just do what you know is right and honest. It's takes a lot of time to change completely. Ray wasnt kidding when he said getting saved is the hardest thing you will ever do. It's suppose to be hard, but the rewards are great.

Praying for you JohnMichael, please pray for me too.

Much Peace & Love

G.Driggs

[Samson]

Hello John Michael,

Thanks for sharing that Testimony with Us. It took allot of courage to do so. The word SIN comes from the Greek Word HAMARTIA and means TO MISS THE MARK OR SIMPLY A MISTAKE. God's Chosen Elect, those in the First Resurrection are very few. Everyone Sins John(Romans. 3:23), anyone that says they haven't or even occasionally Sin by either Thought, Word or Action is a Liar & the Truth is not in them or they might be Self Righteous. The Main difference in the area of Sin when comparing God's Chosen Elect and everyone else is that Sin doesn't Reign or have Dominion in the case of God's Elect, but if they commit an individual Sin, they have a Comforter or Advocate with Jesus Christ.

Rom 6:14  For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
1Jn 2:1  My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Rom 3:23  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

G264
ἁμαρτάνω
hamartanō
ham-ar-tan'-o
Perhaps from G1 (as a negative particle) and the base of G3313; properly to miss the mark (and so not share in the prize), that is, (figuratively) to err, especially (morally) to sin: - for your faults, offend, sin, trespass.

Dave from Tennessee mentioned 1Cor. 6:9-11 about those " not inheriting God's Kingdom," that Scriptural passage is referring to God's Chosen Elect because they make up those that are Kings & Priests that Rule with Christ teaching Righteousness after Christ's Return & The Resurrection of the Dead. The point in that passage is that they don't " don't practice such things."

John, To be quite honest, I don't know for sure whether or Not I'm of the Chosen Elect & I'm not going to worry myself about it. The fact is God has put a desire in you to desist what your doing and I'm glad you decided to join this Forum. I have my faults too, I smoke tobacco, does that make you feel any better, maybe not, but it is what it is.

My Wife used to be a Forum Member, She decided to let Her Account run out, but She believes in most of what We learn here & talks to some members through telephone. The reason I bring Her up is that Her best friend is a Gay Female who is Married to a Woman. At first, I was a little hesitant thinking this Woman might influence My Wife in the wrong direction, but I quickly realized that Her Gay Friend is got allot of good traits in many other areas that many self righteous "Christians" don't exhibit.

My point in the first paragraph of My response is that Sin is Sin. The Churches of Christendom try to rank Homosexuality as one of the top three or something like that. Conservative Churches will overly highlight the wrongness of Homosexuality, but don't seem to be concerned about those that commit Pre-Marital Sex-Porneia. Probably, because they wouldn't have any membership left if they focused on those committing Fornication-Pre-Marital Sex.

Anyway, thanks for sharing Your story & glad you joined us at Bible-Truths, believe Me, many of us have our Stories of suffering & horror, your not alone.

                                  Kind Regards, Samson.

[arion]

John;

No judgement from me as for much of my life I have struggled on/off with those kinds of thoughts but God had mercy on me and I have never engaged in those activities.  Christ said if you look at a woman to lust after her you have already committed adultery with her in your heart and it would be just the same with thoughts of male/male, female/female sexual activities as well.  Only us as individuals, know if we really want to be delivered and walk in cleanliness or if we are looking for some sort of justification for our sins.  I have told people many times that there is a difference between a man who abhors his sin and would go anywhere and do anything to be free from it as opposed to the ones who justify their sin and try to twist the scriptures to say that there is nothing wrong with their behavior and indeed God approves of it like the metropolitan churches claim.  It's so easy to look down our long bony noses at the homosexuals, drug abusers and alcholics and yet the ones that do so are many times filled with pride because they have never done such sins, yet who is guilty of the greater sin?  The one indulging the sins of the flesh or the ones indulging the sins of the spirit?  God knows.  I won't approve you in your sins and you need to stop it.  But neither do I think you can give them up of your own accord by the exercise of your will power.

God be with you and all of us.

Doug

[JohnMichael]

I guess it it all comes down to focusing on the One who will deliver us more than we focus on what we need to be delivered from.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

There is great wisdom in your words. I know that I can nothing without Him. I have tried to in the past, and fallen flat on my face.

I believe I can tell you this as testimony--you are not without hope.

If 100 people had lined up to tell me 'don't do this' while I struggled in the church or succumbed and wallowed in the world for 20 years, I would not have been able to 'stop', even when I wanted to.  I came to believe the Gospel about three years ago now.  Some things have fallen away easily and others the Lord has not removed easily, but has forced me to lean on him and to act in faith.

Some things I haven't begun to tackle.  I know that He works in increments, because I've experienced this--more than once. 

The other way it is not like my religious past, is that I KNOW that the Lord is not mocked.  He sees the very motives of my heart.  I cannot pull the wool over His eyes or fool Him in any way.  He knows my works, my faith, my desire, my thoughts, my motives--and He is not surprised at anything, including my many failures.  He designed me to fail, and so far I've proved to 'operate within specified parameters.'     He also knows my heart and my state when the Spirit is willing, but flesh is weak.

There's a time and a place for failure, and also a time and a place for 'with Christ I can do all things'.  There is a time to live against the will of God according to His ultimate purpose, and a time to repent.  There is a time coming when your repentance will be effective.  And if you are speaking the truth about your desires, that ought to give you hope.

That does give me great hope - more than you know.

When you mention "leave Babylon," that reminds me of a dream I had a few years ago. I didn't know what it meant at the time - only that it was something important.

In the dream, I was being led by a figure in black. I couldn't see the figure's face, only the black cloak it was wearing. It led me through various dark rooms filled with occult symbols. Then, the scenery changed, and the same figure was leading me into a church, but the church was filled with the red "danger zone" kind of lighting. I was in a line of people who were walking single file up a staircase. The people were expressionless and blindly following this same figure in black. The staircase led up to the steeple, but then it turned and started back downward. As I turned the last corner in this line, I saw up ahead that the staircase suddenly stopped, and I saw flames shooting up, and the people ahead of me were walking off the cliff. I saw the figure suddenly turn, and the cloak dropped, and I saw this malicious looking figure start laughing, and saying, "Oops!" as each person fell.

I looked in horror as my place in the line kept getting closer and closer to the "drop," and I cried out, "Lord, save me!" I was instantly transported out of the church, and into a garden, where I saw a caricature of Jesus. In the garden, we talked for quite some time, but I couldn't (and still can't) remember what was said. After this conversation was finished, I was transported back to the church, but this time I was running out of it as fast as I could into a bright, beautiful, sunny day. I had such a feeling of liberation and freedom.

Years passed, and I had forgotten this dream, but then I "stumbled" upon bibletruths.com when I was looking up scriptures in anger. I started reading Ray's papers on Hell and Free Will, and I suddenly couldn't stop myself from reading. I read and read and read and read until I felt like I couldn't read anymore. I was driven to keep reading. It was as if I was a starving man suddenly placed at the table of a great banquet, and I was scarfing down food. When I reached the part about leaving Babylon, that dream came rushing back and hit me like a massive tidal wave, and I trembled inside.

I'm only 27, so I don't know if that was a prophetic dream or not because I know the Bible says, "Old men will dream dreams," but I couldn't help but feel like that dream was showing me leaving Babylon. Some would try to say that the dream was proving the existence of Hell, but I know that to be a falsehood. I believe it did show me eventually leaving Babylon though. Lord, chastise me if I am wrong or misguided, but that is what I genuinely felt as I was reading that paper.

I have seen little "snapshots" of my sinful relationship ending, and it hurts. It really does - more than words can describe. My heart breaks. Moreover, in those same "snapshots," I have seen myself being a eunuch for the Kingdom, and that hurts. The fact that I won't be able to experience the joys of having a companion - that I will be alone (as far as a companion goes). It makes me break down into tears, but also, at the same time, something inside me screams, "Yes! Lord! Yes!" I don't know if those "snapshots" are prophetic or not, but something inside me believes they are.

I know and believe that God IS Sovereign. My will is nothing, and it is ALWAYS subservient to His Will. I know that the pot (me) has no place to question the Potter (God), and I hope that I am NEVER guilty of mocking Him. My heart trembles though and is fearful. My heart has cried out, "Please don't give up on me!" many, many, many times. My head knows that God will always finish what He starts, but my heart has doubt.

Please pray for me, and though I don't feel worthy to pray for all of you, I will. Maybe I'm at the point in the story of the Prodigal Son where he remembers his father's house, and begins the journey of coming home. I can only put my trust in Him. Sometimes I feel as though I can only crawl, but He drags me on.

Thank you all for your uplifting and comforting responses - it means more to me than you may ever know. Christ give me patience to wait upon His timing, so that I will know that it was He who brought me out of darkness and sin - not myself.

John

[Joel]

John;
I went twenty something years feeling separated from God, but there were times while thinking about my life before I went to sleep at night, the only peace I had in my mind was that whatever the Judge of the earth's verdict for me, will be right, perfect, and true.

Hebrews 9:27-28
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Keep looking
Joel

[karenmarie]

John, I don't know how God will work in you for this particular issue, but I do KNOW that you can trust Him, and I think you also know that, deep down.

He may gradually help you to overcome homosexuality as He did occult practices - gently, a bit at a time, making you ready to be a different man at His timing. Deliverance might come all at once. Soon or not so soon, but at the right time that God has ordained for His glory.

One thing I noticed in your last post to comment on is a reliance on dreams and visions. God does give us those, but in my experience, I have ALSO received dreams and visions from other sources, to confuse and alarm me. Maybe from inside my own brain, my own reasoning, maybe from an evil source. I try to practice discernment and "listen" to see if a particular image flashing in me is truly from God. "My sheep hear my voice"

So maybe the end of your relationship may not be painful in the way you are "seeing" it. You may not be alone without companionship - who knows what God will provide for you. Flashing views of you alone and suffering great sadness may be what God intends, but IF SO, He will be there with you! He will not leave you alone! He is the Comforter. God is the author and finisher of our faith. We can trust Him totally to shape us into the likeness of Jesus.

Karen

[Marky Mark]

Hello John and welcome.

When we get to the core of the matter is not all that we are and where we all are heading not coming from The Lord as a work in progress,as you say? Rest assured,all is of God, and the fact that we sometimes don't realize it does not take away from our Lords awesome Sovereign Love. It is an experience of evil that we all must live in order that we may be humbled and broken and ground to powder.

Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Your sexual preference is but one form of evil that all of mankind must experience.The flavors are endless it seems, but they are from the Lord.

Exo 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

Does not The Lord refer to all of these evil ailments of mankind, evil, as in 'evil spirits.' This condition that we experience is all part of Gods plan and purpose. Who's will was being done here? Joseph's brothers? Or Gods.

Gen 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Again,who commands evil spirits when the time comes for His action.

Mar 9:25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.

There are certainly different manners of evil that are being used according to Gods purpose for whatever condition the Lord sees fit.

1Ki 22:19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
1Ki 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
1Ki 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.


1Ki 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he [Christ] said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
1Ki 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
1Ki 22:24 But Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah went near, and smote Micaiah on the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee?
1Ki 22:25 And Micaiah said, Behold, thou shalt see in that day, when thou shalt go into an inner chamber to hide thyself.
1Ki 22:26 And the king of Israel said, Take Micaiah, and carry him back unto Amon the governor of the city, and to Joash the king's son;
1Ki 22:27 And say, Thus saith the king, Put this fellow in the prison, and feed him with bread of affliction and with water of affliction, until I come in peace.
1Ki 22:28 And Micaiah said, If thou return at all in peace, the LORD hath not spoken by me. And he said, Hearken, O people, every one of you.


It seems clear that the Lord works with mankind in the physical realm through His spiritual realm for His Supreme outcome,in all things. And for what reason is there certain methods to be used? Because...


Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

So that...

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

What we ultimately have then is there is no free will, and as Ray teaches, cause and effect is what will humble people into giving an account of their willful participation in evil deeds which were caused by circumstance that are beyond our control. All will be made right according to His purpose.


All Praise and Glory to The Most High...

I hope this helps some.

Peace...Mark