My struggles

[jingle52]

Hello everyone,
I have refrained from posting for a few months now because my heart was, and still is very troubled by the fact that I am not yet  producing the important fruits of the Spirit.

Since stumbling onto BT in Nov 2009, I have learnt all these wonderful and marvellous truths and have had all the problems associated with it that we all go/went through... wanting to share with family and friends etc. etc.
I say this because, I've been reading and studying my bible (having the urge to get up very early while everyone is still sleeping and reading whole chapters), in the afternoon reading Rays teaching, bible studies, emails, reading the forum's questions/doubts and responses and being blessed by the answers given.  I've never left the need to fill this hunger and void that I had before BT.

Notwithstanding all this input, I still cannot catch myself in time to curb my tongue with a curt answer when provoked by something not done properly or out of laziness (by family members), when these situations occur, then at times, the discussion turns into a heated argument.

Pro21:23 Whoso keepeth his mouth and his tongue keepeth his soul from troubles.

This is not how I want to be and I pray daily to God Almighty to have  this aspect of my character changed as this certainly is not the essence of who I am. I think that I'm deliberately being goaded by unseen forces to respond in this way as throughout the day, I'll be calm and reading/studying, then in the evening when everyone's at home, something will happen to set me off coarse to rock my calmness and mindset (as if challenging me, as if saying, ha you thought you had everything figured out, but I'll show you it's not as easy as that) I apologise if it sounds weird. 

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour

In Ray's last (March)  Bible study he says that  we should be like Jesus – As Jesus was on this earth, so are we. That's good. Because you know how I emphasize over and over and over again, have a clean conscience. Don't do anything, don't say anything, don't go anywhere where you are going to feel bad about it tomorrow. DON'T DO IT!
1John 4:17  Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment...
v. 17 ... because as He is, so are we in this world.
1Jn 4:18  There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear...

That really surprised me as I've been thinking along those lines too. How would Jesus have reacted in my place?  How can I ever hope to produce any fruit if I still behave in such an impatient way? Satan is just having a good old time with me without my even knowing it – I only realise when it's too late and then I agonise over not having the ability to see it coming.

There seems to be no end to the troubles and problems we each face everyday by God chastising, teaching and correcting us... to make us perfect.... But the road is long and hard and I find courage and inspiration reading all your testimonials.

May the Lord continue to work in us (in me) for we are all longing to live uprightly in whichever way we can and to obey his commands.
God Bless you all.

[arion]

How can I ever hope to produce any fruit if I still behave in such an impatient way?

You can't, I can't, we can't.  This is an area I struggle with as well among many others.  God gets us to the place where our house of cards built on the sand falls and then he starts to accomplish his will in our lives a little bit at a time in overcoming all of these thing.  How I have admired people who are naturally outgoing, sensitive to others and loving.  They are producing these things most of the time out of their own personal makeup and not because God is doing a work in them.  I'm getting to the point where I really am beginning to realize the truth of the verse where Christ says 'Without me you can do nothing'.  If He doesn't do it (whatever the 'it' may be in our lives) then it's not going to get done.  I try instead to focus more on what God has already accomplished in me as I look back over the last several years.  It's a great accomplishment to take a man who both believed and taught the christian hell and all the error that goes with it and to totally transform him.  I see this with many things in my life that I used to believe.  I am reminded that he is building us from the inside out and not the outside in.  The outer 'building' of my life is still pretty ugly with the peeling paint and battered exterior but he is building a new life within the old.  I wish it went faster but God knows what he's doing in us.  Unfortunately it takes a lot of time in many cases but God will get us where we need to be when we need to be there and it is enough.

[One Love]

My struggles, is not your struggles and our struggles is not his (Lord God-Jesus) struggles. We all long for the same material stuff, nothing spiritual, we cannot know spirit in this carnal life, he said it & it will be.

Hebrews 9:27-Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,
Plainly, no one would live to see his second coming becuase the above verse will not be spirit & truth if any is alive to witness this.

Mark 13:31-Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
This confirms Hebrews 9:27

He (Lord God-Jesus) has taken out the most elect in the past, who still sleeps in hades, who are we of today, can one of us say, "I'm elect" no not one, because it is written.

How many were elected (chosen) for those periods of time, Moses, Noah & who, who who?                 How many can win the same race?
Only one, everything is one:
One Father
One God
One love
One spirirt
One, one, one everything, all your posts & teachings & prophesy & love and giving & hate & quoting of scriptures ain't gonna change anything because even those that worship other gods & idols is still amongst us without suffering, nothing you do, good or bad will change his WILL.

[Kat]

Hi Gordon,

We all long for the same material stuff, nothing spiritual, we cannot know spirit in this carnal life, he said it & it will be.

Hebrews 9:27-Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,
Plainly, no one would live to see his second coming becuase the above verse will not be spirit & truth if any is alive to witness this.

There are a few that are being judged at this time.

1Peter 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

Yes there are a few that are dying to the carnal flesh now, as Paul said "I die daily."

1Cor 15:31  I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 

With these few it is with Christ indwelling and this is our baptism of the Holy Spirit and likened to being buried (in the symbolic water) and then raised to be a new man/woman and judged daily.

Rom 6:3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 
v. 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 
v. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 
v. 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 

So yes we are now dying to the flesh everyday as we are being taken through the process of dying to self and overcoming sin. It is a slow process of first coming to really hate the sins and slowly being given power to overcome, in time, but not by our power, but the power of the Holy Spirit.

1John 3:24  And he that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, and He in him. And hereby we know that He abideth in us, by the Spirit which He hath given us.

1John 4:4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

So if the Holy Spirit is indwelling then we are judged, and we can overcome, and we do know the truth, which can only come from divine revelation of God in our minds.

1Cor 2:9 But as it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him."   
v. 10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 
v. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 
v. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 
v. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 
v. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 
v. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 
v. 16 For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?"  But we have the mind of Christ. 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Rene]

This is not how I want to be and I pray daily to God Almighty to have  this aspect of my character changed as this certainly is not the essence of who I am. I think that I'm deliberately being goaded by unseen forces to respond in this way as throughout the day, I'll be calm and reading/studying, then in the evening when everyone's at home, something will happen to set me off coarse to rock my calmness and mindset (as if challenging me, as if saying, ha you thought you had everything figured out, but I'll show you it's not as easy as that) I apologise if it sounds weird. 

Hi jingles52,

I understand how you are feeling and I'm sure, most of us here have felt similarly.  The fact that you have the desire to change shows that the Lord is "processing" your heart.

However, what is important for you to understand is that God is showing you the "true essence" of who you are when you react the way you do at certain times.  It is easy for us to be a "righteous" person when we are alone, but the true person at heart comes out when we interact with others.  This is a lesson I, too, am learning.  It is painful to see ourselves for what we truly are, but it also is a blessing. When we are feeling ashamed of our "bad" conduct, it is a step in the right direction towards being changed.  Only God can change our hearts, which changes our conduct, and He will show you that you, on your own, can do nothing to save yourself.

Here is an email reply from Ray that addresses this subject.  I hope it helps.

René
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1681.0.html
Dear Chris:

Yes, "been there; done that."  You can't of yourself get yourself out of your sin and misery.  You desire it, but you will not find the strenght in yourself to do it.  God brings all of His chosen elect to the place in their life where they hate life; they hate themselves; and often hate God.  When you get that low and are so very thoroughly convinced that you can and will never overcome you most horrible sins, that is when God will come to your rescue.  You must be convinced that if you are saved from yourself and your sins, that it was God that did it and not you. I am convinced of that in my life. If God is choosing you, then it will also happen in your life.  Just keep praying and obeying until God gives you the victory over yourself and your sin. I will pray for you.

God be with you,

Ray

[jingle52]

Thank your Arion and Renè for your insightful words and testimonials. If I am trying to change my bad conduct it's only because as you've both reminded me, that our Lord says "Without Me you can do nothing" and that contrary to what I've always thought, my true essence is one of impatience and that can only be changed by God changing my heart in His own time  .
Kat, thank you for these inspirational verses, you always encourage us with the right Scriptures!!!!
Blessings

p.s. Arion, I've also always admired those people too, they seem to just do and say the right things all the time.....but we are being built from the inside out as you so rightly point out.  Long way to go yet!

[cjwood]

One, one, one everything, all your posts & teachings & prophesy & love and giving & hate & quoting of scriptures ain't gonna change anything because even those that worship other gods & idols is still amongst us without suffering, nothing you do, good or bad will change his WILL.

it is the Truth, that nothing and no one will change His will, but, the highlighted statement above made me ask, what's this for?

claudia

[gmik]

In my old age ( ) I am refusing to struggle about anything!!

I love God, Jesus, the Bible, this forum and the BT site, forum family and my family....

I read the Word and wish I could be a better person and inside I try to remember to be a kind person to all....

but I can't save the world, I don't know if I am in the "first" group or not, and I don't worry about it---its all God after all

so I just kinda do my own thing in my life (family, friends, hobbies, etc) try to stay happy and positive and above all---approachable!!!

Just in case the Lord has one of them want to know something I can be ready and able to help them.

Chill everyone---Gods got our back!!

[jingle52]

Hi Gena,
I guess I should trust in the Lord more- to still, calm and change my heart and to enjoy life more without being too serious. I've noticed that I too have changed in many ways since BT and one of them is living life much too seriously..... 
Blessings

[dogcombat]

Jingle,

Congratulations!!  Seriously, I mean that.  You are coming to know 1 simple truth.  You CAN'T produce spiritual fruit on your own human effort:

John 6:63 (New International Version)

63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

Think of how we get fruit in the natural sense like, for example an apple tree.

First you plant an apple seed into good ground

Second, that seed MUST die as a seed in order to begin to grow, (it CAN'T begin to grow staying as a seed.)

Third, you then have a plant coming out of the ground.  which is watered by rain and tilled (sometimes) to keep weeds from choking it out.

Fourth, the plant must grow into a tree.  Which takes years to do

Fifth, the tree then will be able to bear the fruit (in this case apples) in its appropriate season.

With us it is God who will sow the seeds in us, then teach us to die to ourselves, till us (via trials and tribulations) and provide us cooling waters.  THEN we will bear His spiritual fruit in His APPOINTED time.

Your description of your struggles is something a lot of us can relate to on the forum.  But remember this:

GOD HAS YOU RIGHT WHERE HE WANTS YOU, AND HE HAS THE FINAL SAY ON WHEN YOU WILL BEAR FRUIT OF HIS SPIRIT

I have said it before, and you'll truly understand that before God helps you up, He must first humble you down.  Then, like a phoenix, you'll rise from the ashes.  In this case, ashes meaning idols of the heart, which have been crumbled to dust.

May God enlighten you
Ches

[mharrell08]

I've noticed that I too have changed in many ways since BT and one of them is living life much too seriously..... 

Great stuff Jingle52 

That statement above should be a banner on the top of the forum. We all lose perspective and forget that the gospel is Good News, so no need to constantly worry or take ourselves too seriously. As Jesus said: Be of Good Cheer, I have overcome the World [John 16:33].



Marques

[cjwood]

excellent post ches.  thank you for the reminder. 

claudia

[jingle52]

Ches, what a wonderful analogy, really brought tears to my eyes because I know understand this spiritual seed planting and growing so much better. I will know always liken any growth in me that the Lord deems fit, to this apple tree 

Thank you for that Marques, I will definitely be a cheerier person from now on 

Thank you all for your responses.

Blessings.

[dogcombat]

Ches, what a wonderful analogy, really brought tears to my eyes because I know understand this spiritual seed planting and growing so much better. I will know always liken any growth in me that the Lord deems fit, to this apple tree  Smiley

You're welcome Jingle. Through our Father's love and grace we can rest in the fact the His will is being done, and He WILL save all!!!!

Ches