is there any value atall in the teachings of hell believing christendom?

[david1611kjv]

Should we avoid the orthodox church completely?...i find myself scouring the internet for further teaching and i get really impatient and turn off when i see that whoever is teaching believes in hell, am i correct in assuming that eternal torment believers have absolutely nothing to offer me now?...do they really know nothing after all their lives in study?
blessings
David
x

[Dawidos]

Good question. The leaders of the Church are well-educated people who spend their lifes studying the Bible. So how it is possible that they are wrong? There are three options. The first, they know the Truth but omit some of its aspects for their personal reasons. The second, they don't see the Truth and don't know their teaching is wrong. The third, they can't accept the Truth, they see it but are not able to believe it.

[Kat]

Hi David,

am i correct in assuming that eternal torment believers have absolutely nothing to offer me now?...do they really know nothing after all their lives in study?

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.  

People do learn worldly knowledge and that is not all bad and that's what you hear in the churches. It matters not how much a person applies themselves to learn this truth, unless God works a miracle in your life and opens your eyes you will not gain spiritual knowledge, that is why Jesus always spoke in parables to the multitudes.

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?"  
v. 11 He answered and said to them, "Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.  
v. 12 "For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.  
v. 13 "Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.  
v. 14 "And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: 'Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive;  
v. 15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull. [Their] ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with [their] eyes and hear with [their] ears, Lest they should understand with [their] hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.'
v. 16 "But blessed [are] your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;
v. 17 "for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous [men] desired to see what you see, and did not see [it], and to hear what you hear, and did not hear [it].  

What it all boils down to is the world is deceived and they are blind to the truth, therefore you will not find spiritual understanding there.

Rev 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world...

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Samson]

Should we avoid the orthodox church completely?...i find myself scouring the internet for further teaching and i get really impatient and turn off when i see that whoever is teaching believes in hell, am i correct in assuming that eternal torment believers have absolutely nothing to offer me now?...do they really know nothing after all their lives in study?
blessings
David
x

Hi David,

I will attempt to answer your question to the best of My ability, including some comments & excerpt's of Ray's. Firstly, The Church Denominations of Christendom are deceived. To what degree( the percentage of their teachings), I don't know, only God fully knows. Individual Rank & File Church Members are probably close to fully deceived, followed by the Minister or Pastor of the particular individual Churches. Christendom's Bible "Scholars," Theologians & Translators are deceived on some Level, again, to what degree or how much, no one is fully certain.

The Politics in Church Denominations plays a large part in influencing what they believe & teach. Bible Scholars & Theologians need to maintain the Status Quo, Control the Religious Masses, Make Money & maintain acceptance from their Peer's(Fellow Orthodox Scholars & Theologians). If they don't stay within that accepted Orthodox Thought Control Peer Group, they risk losing their Prominence, Authority, Status & Money. It takes allot of Humility, Desire & Courage to leave that all behind. They have created Terms like "Context," Exegesis & Hermeneutics, big sounding words that the majority of their Church Members don't even understand. And Who do you think sets the standard as to what The "Context" Is, What is considered proper Hermeneutics & Exegesis, THEY DO.

It's truly a Miracle that God led any of Us to discovering the Truth behind any of the information learned at this Site. The Main Benefit, if any,  the "Churches" provide is in teaching & demonstrating THE WRONG & FALSE VERSION OF SCRIPTURAL INTERPRETATION & A WRONG VIEW AS TO THE CHARACTER OF THE GOD WE WORSHIP. The Church System is used as a part of the process & experience of Evil that God uses to prepare those He desire's to eventually understand the correct understanding of Scripture.

Once You begin to learn these Truths, it's a waste of time to re-check the spiritual garbage we left behind. It's usefulness is over & already fulfilled it's purpose. When I think of the various Church systems of Christendom, the Scriptures listed below come to mind.

2Ti 3:5  Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7  Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:13  But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
Act 20:29  For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30  Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Mat 15:8  This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9  But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Most of the Religious Leaders of Christendom fall under & are influenced in their beliefs & teachings by the Scriptural passage found below.

1Jn 2:15  Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16  For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

        BELOW ARE POINTS FROM RAY TO HELP IN THE DISCUSSION, RAY SHOWS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HIS(JESUS) CHURCH THE(CHRISTENDOM) CHURCH.

PAUL SAW THE HANDWRITING ON THE WALL

Only a few years into Paul's ministry, he told the Corinthian Congregation of the corruption already in the Church:

    "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ" (II Cor. 2:17).

Now I hope you all know that I love the King James, and it is true as stated in this verse that they "corrupted" the word of God, but this verse tells us much more than the King James translators present in this verse. Let's read a few other translations of this same verse:

    "For we are not, as THE MANY, driving a PETTY TRADE with the word of God..." (A New Translation, By J. B. Rotherham).

    "For we are not as the MAJORITY, who are PEDDLING the word of God..." (Concordant Literal New Testament).

    "For I seek not PROFIT [LIKE MOST] by setting the word of God TO SALE..." (The Epistles of Paul, By Conybeare).

    "Unlike MANY PEOPLE, we are not in the habit of MAKING PROFIT out of God's Message" (The Twentieth Century New Testament).

    "For I am no PEDDLER of God's message LIKE MOST MEN" (An American Translation, By Goodspeed).

    "For I am not like MOST, TRAFFICKING in the word of God" ( The New Testament in Modern English, By Montgomery).

    "For we are not like THE GREAT NUMBER who make use of the Word of God for PROFIT" (The New Testament in Basic English).

ADULTERATING HUCKSTERS OF GOD'S WORD

Does anyone have any doubts now, as to what this verse is saying? I hope not. But there is still more in this verse that does not meet the eye of understanding unless we check the Greek. The word from which "corrupt," "profit," "peddling," and "trafficking" was taken, is the Greek word kapeleou, and it means much more than simply selling for a profit: Strong's Greek Dictionary of The New Testament: #2585. kpeleuo (a huckster); to retail, i.e. (by impl.) to adulterate. This word means to be a retailer, to peddle, to hucksterize; hence, intentionally to get base gain by dealing in anything, to do anything for sordid personal advantage." (P. 128). WOW! But wait ... here's one more definition:

From Greek-English Keyword Concordance, "peddle [kapeleu'o], sell at retail, with the insinuation of improper profit, either by overcharging or adulterating"(P. 220).

Can you even begin to understand and believe what you are reading? Paul said that it was the MAJORITY that were retailing, selling, peddling, huckstering, an adulterated version of God's word by overcharging improper profits far beyond rational living expenses for their own base gain and sordid personal advantage! Not only was this practice CORRUPT, but, it was being done by "THE MANY," "THE MAJORITY!" Tell me that you can't see this being done in the church today?

THE CHURCH AFTER PAUL'S DEPARTURE

While in Miletus, before going to Caesarea and then up to Jerusalem, Paul gave us a profound prophetic statement regarding the direction the church would take immediately after his departure:

    "For I have not shunned to declare unto you ALL THE COUNSEL OF GOD. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to ALL THE FLOCK [the entire Church of God, and remember that ALL of Paul's epistles were read and distributed by Peter as well to the Jewish saints, II Pet. 3:16-17], over the which the Holy Ghost has made you overseers, to feed THE CHURCH OF GOD, which He has purchased with His own blood. FOR I KNOW THIS, that after my departing shall GRIEVOUS WOLVES enter in among you, NOT SPARING THE FLOCK. Also of your OWN SELVES shall men arise, speaking PERVERSE THINGS, to DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES AFTER THEM. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day WITH TEARS [Paul knew and could see how horribly deceived the Church of God was to become]. And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified" (Acts 20:27-32).

WOW ... Not a pretty picture, is it? It gets worse.

Paul knew that just as he had to come out of religious Babylon, those under his evangelism would also have to one day come out of the New Testament Church of God's Babylonian practices. In our next installment we will see just what these practices and doctrines of the Seven Churches are, that we must "Come out of..."

Peter witnessed and prophesied of the same conditions in the Church. Listen to Peter's powerful words of admonition in his last epistle for us:

"But there were false prophets [teachers] also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers AMONG YOU, who privately shall bring in DAMNABLE HERESIES, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And MANY shall follow their pernicious [lascivious, licentious, wanton] ways; by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be EVIL spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words MAKE MERCHANDISE OF YOU..." (II Pet. 2:1-3).

WHO ARE THE 'FALSE CHRISTS?'

Who are they who almost deceive the VERY ELECT and DECEIVE MANY? We read that they are "false Christs" and "false prophets." But WHO are these false Christs and false prophets? How will we know them? What IDENTIFIES them as false prophets, liars, and deceivers? I WILL MAKE THIS SO SCRIPTURALLY PLAIN THAT A TEN YEAR OLD CAN UNDERSTAND IT!

At this time I will give you just two Scriptures where Jesus gives us the IDENTIFYING SIGNS of the these false teachers, and deceivers:

    "MANY will say to me [Jesus] in that day, Lord, Lord [Master, Master], have we not:
     
    A: PROPHESIED [taught, preached] in Thy Name [Jesus]?
     
    B: In Thy Name [Jesus] have CAST OUT DEVILS [demons]?
     
    C: And in Thy Name [Jesus] done MANY WONDERFUL WORKS [miracles]?
     
    And then will I profess [plainly, openly, tell them to their face] I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME YOU THAT WORK INIQUITY [lawlessness]" (Matt. 7:22-23).
     
    "For MANY shall come in my name, saying [that], I [Jesus] am Christ, and shall deceive MANY" (Matt. 24:5).

Who are the "MANY" today who, (1) Teach and preach in the name of Jesus Christ? (2) Cast out demons in the name of Jesus Christ? (3) Do MANY (not a few, but many) WONDERFUL WORKS (not evils works, but good and wonderful works), in the name of Jesus Christ? Who? The Russians? The Chinese? The Muslims? The Hindus? The Confucianists? The Buddhists? The Shintoists? The Zoroastrians? The Jews? The QUARTER BILLION Ethnic Religionists? The HUNDRED AND FIFTY MILLION Athiests? Do ANY of these worldwide religions "teach, preach, cast out demons, and do many wonderful works IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST?" No, they don't!

Well then, WHO ARE THESE "MANY" who do these things?

Do "MANY" of the TWO BILLION CHRISTIANS in the world today, "teach, preach, cast out demons, and do many wonderful works IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST?" Then I would say that we have identified the "many" that Jesus warned us about. It is not enough to preach, teach, heal, and cast out demons in the name of Jesus Christ. One has to also OBEY the commandments and teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus said that it is the "many" who do good words, but are guilty of "iniquity" which means "lawlessness."

Next, who are the "MANY" today who say that, "Jesus IS THE CHRIST, THE MESSIAH?" No, don't be deceived; it is not those few who occasionally claim that they themselves are "Jesus the Christ." They don't deceive the "many." Only some fool would ever be deceived into believing that some carnal idiot really IS the Christ. Besides, there are NOT "many" who make such a claim in the first place.

But there certainly are "MANY" who say and teach that JESUS is the REAL CHRIST! And so it is not only those who "teach and preach and cast out demons and do many wonderful works in the name of Jesus" who are DECEIVING THE MANY, but also there is a large group (many) who teach that "Jesus really IS THE CHRIST" and yet Jesus said it would be these that are also DECEIVING THE MANY!

Millions of Christians have heard these Scriptures quoted all their lives. But, God forbid that they would pause a minute or two to consider WHO REALLY ARE THESE PEOPLE THAT JESUS IS TALKING ABOUT THAT REALLY DO THESE MANY WONDERFUL THINGS AND YET ... DECEIVE THE MANY!!

None of the above information is meant to imply that you can't or shouldn't study outside the Forum influence, but to impress upon you that "Orthodox" Christianity & their Doctrines & Traditions won't help you understand the Truth, instead will confuse(Babble-Lon) & deceive You. Two more Scriptures to assist you in Your study found below.

Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

2Pe 2:20  For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21  For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22  But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

              Kind Regards & Hope this Helps, Samson.

[Joel]

Hi David;
IS there any value, or purpose in the many false teachings in Babylon today?
I have to say there is in the overall plans of God, there would be no reason to say "come out of her my people" if there was nothing to come out of.
Down through history evil has always raised it's ugly head against the real Truth. Moses had those that stood against him in his day, the prophets of God had those that they had to deal with, and so it goes up to our day also.

Matthew 22:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
John 20:9
For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.

Not much has changed over the years, except that we are blessed of God to see and understand Truth in our day, and look for Jesus to come the second time, He is the only one that will ever bring real peace.

There were different groups on the scene at his first coming, the Pharisees, Sadducee's, Scribes and no doubt others.
Today without naming all the denominations that exist today, that most of us have had brushes with. The overall group for sure can be called Babylon. I am Glad to be set free from such, and am thankfull God has made a place for us to live and grow.

Joel

[david1611kjv]

excellent responses guy's, i am truly thankful for your time and patience.

[Revilonivek]

Should we avoid the orthodox church completely?...i find myself scouring the internet for further teaching and i get really impatient and turn off when i see that whoever is teaching believes in hell, am i correct in assuming that eternal torment believers have absolutely nothing to offer me now?...do they really know nothing after all their lives in study?
blessings
David
x

Hey David,

Here's something  I thought would lift your spirit. This is from Romans chapter 10:6-12, read carefully. it says  no matter what faith(religion) you are, the message is already told everywhere.

There is  no doctrines of man to follow,  all we need is faith in the Love of God. God will not make it impossible for you, no bullshit, no confusion-  God doesn't care if you're a catholic, a hindu, a Buddhist, a Muslim. God cares about your state of heart. there's no right bible to follow. God will make a way for you, even if it requires using any bible to bring you to the knowledge of the Truth.   

People argue 1611 is the oldest bible but what about the translator William Tyndale?  He did it first before the kjv 1611 translators who translated heavily  on tyndale's bible for help and under pressure of pleasing King James? Tyndale put his life on the line and was killed at the stake for translating the bible into english  sometime in 1500s. It was a crime to translate the bible in another language, according to catholic authorities.

Does it mean that one is the perfect one without error, of course no. there was an older  bible translated into  latin in late 300 AD sometime.. It doesn't matter which one is the most perfect translation.

Focus on whats important.  Truth will set you free. 


6But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

7Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

[eskimojerry]

Hello DavidKJV,

I don't know how relevant this will be to your life,...(I don't even know how relevant my life is to me sometimes...it's the only one I have now

If you are seeing the truths that most reject...there will be NO peace. No peace regarding you and the world,...but peace regarding you and God!!! In your life now, that will be enough and more than sufficient. But, know this,...and it makes me want to cry just to say it, but, your great house built on sand has to fall. And the fall will be great! Even if it takes years to build it back up,...don't give up. There is still a mystry,...that will keep opening up and up and up.

The licentious part of gaining this knowledge will.........................pass....................eventually. But the beauty of it is that you are part of the whole picture that is not contrary to the scriptures. And God is creating you to be in His image,... when the Potter is finished with the pot.

Be strong, look back,...and live. God blesses you.

[DougE6]

I see things out there that fascinate me at times.  I love courage. Zeal. People who do difficult and hard things for the sake of the gospel, at least the gospel as they understand it. I compare myself to them, not in doctrine, oh no, way past that...but in appreciation for their willingness to do what they think is right, FOR JESUS.  To confront evil. to get out of their comfort zones. Here is a you tube video of a campus preacher. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZ1r6_3x9I&feature=related    I dont know if the link works, but I just wanted to put it out there. Why? Because my journey started with a powerful conversion(yes I know it isn't complete, but it was a great change NEVERTHELESS, and didn't Paul have a powerful conversion, even though he was a spiritual babe, at first?) that was due to great conviction and huge fear of judgement and hell, which I most assuredly felt I deserved.  Speaking of the campus preacher, I have been there.  I have preached at rock concerts, like WhiteSnake, I have preached with a microphone in parks, I have been on campus. It is very very scary, but it was very deeply fulfilling, when you overcame and faced ridicule for Jesus.  You can see what a great change in my beliefs took place, from fundamentalism...BUT JESUS WAS REAL FOR ME FROM THE BEGINNING EVEN THOUGH I DIDNT UNDERSTAND AS I DO NOW. He changed my heart and my conscience, from day 1.  I did have a fall away, but He was always there. I do NOT look down on these people.
And you know what?  Judgement is real!!!!  Spending an age in the Lake of Fire is not fun!  Missing out on Jesus First Resurrection is an inconceivable loss to me.  Even the Apostle Paul felt so.  I have no trouble preaching repentance to sinners, even now! Why, because we are so knowlegable, we can't preach repentance?  Simple things, like repent and believe? The church alone has to do it?  Then we try to take a few out of the church?  Are we only to preach to the church? Or just keep our mouths shut, happy in our private knowledge?  I don't know, but my athiest friends tell me I am the most devout Christian they know, (I saw it on their facebook pages)and they know I do not believe in eternal hell, BUT THEY KNOW I BELIEVE IN JUDGEMENT< AND GOD WILL BALANCE THE SCALES AS WELL AS CONVERT EVERYONE THAT THEIR KNEES WILL BOW> THEY KNOW I BELIEVE THAT.  AND I TRY NEVER TO MISS AN OPPORTUNITY TO SHOW JESUS.  It is the least I can do for Jesus. And I am well aware He is doing the work, but my heart yearns to reach out to others, and to be brave like my lesser understanding beginning believers in the faith.  And I tell him all the time, that I want to be more pure, more righteous, more courageous, and more useful.  And when I see the church doing works, I take some deep admiration for it, cause I know how hard it is, and I was there.

[mharrell08]

Matt 6:3-4  ...when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.

James 1:27  Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.


Doug,

This is just my opinion and not meant to rain on your parade. I think it goes further with people when one does for them instead of preaching at them. When you do for others, but while bringing your message, it comes off as having an agenda. When one simply does for others, and waits for questions concerning the hope that lies in them, that can go a long way. And that also means being satisfied if no questions come, trusting that God will draw them when He is ready to.

There were a few instances where Jesus simply performed a miracle for someone and tried to get away without the attention (the man healed at the pool of Bethesda comes to mind - John 5). And only after, when the person asked, did He 'preach' to him.

You mention the apostle Paul being converted, but remember, the Lord sent Paul to Ananias once Paul's heart was softened. Most members here never had Ray or anyone with bible-truths 'preached' to them. Our conversion started in private, between us and God, then we were sent to find out the truth and were led here in continuing this journey.


Just a few thoughts that came to mind,

Marques

[david1611kjv]

that sounds more like it marques.......preaching to people is not the way forward

[DougE6]

Hello Marques
your not raining on my parade! LOL.  And I appreciate what you have to say. But Christianity did take the world by storm, and I mean by the apostles and Paul, after having been with or meeting Jesus, ...(Act 4:13  Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus) ......and not because they were timid or were afraid to preach!  Paul obviously went out of his way to various cities on extensive missionary journeys and preached the true gospel to people who hve never heard of Christ at all.  And his gospel was not adulterated with false doctrines, obviously.  Look at Peter!  His first sermon was preached to many on the day of Pentecost, to great effect.....Act 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39  For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40  And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41  Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
I am only saying because the apostles, those with Christ, went out and preached.  And God brought fruit in from it. I cannot believe, that the true gospel, whether preached back then or now 2000 years later, would not have power to convict and call to repentance.   And yes, just to remove any confusion, I am not saying that preacher on you tube is something to go ut and do. I was saying, I appreciate his zeal and courage.   Without people like him, I would not of been reached.... Act 10:42  And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. ...Rom 10:14  How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15  And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

[mharrell08]

That's understandable Doug, but very few are called to preach. It's why Jesus asked would He find faith when He returns [Luke 18:18]. This age becomes worse & worse [Matt 24, Mark 13], with fewer and fewer people coming into a knowledge of the truth [1 Cor 13:8].

It takes great faith to trust and wait on God to send people.

I don't want to discourage you, as you may be one of the few that are called to preach. As the scriptures said, if it is of God, it will succeed...and if not, it will fail. I hope you succeed in the Word.


Take care Doug,

Marques

[Kat]

Hi Doug,

And yes, just to remove any confusion, I am not saying that preacher on you tube is something to go ut and do. I was saying, I appreciate his zeal and courage.   Without people like him, I would not of been reached....

You would not have been reached without that preacher? Excuse me, God does not have to rely on any man, He could have reached you in numerous other ways if He so desired. But I think you know that, yet you continue to make those kinds of comments.

I do believe that you have the best of intentions, yes here it comes, BUT we live in a different time than the Apostles. They were getting the message of the Savior out to the world for the first time. The gospel has been taught in all the world at this point, sure there may be a few that have not heard of the name of Jesus, but very few, I believe the world as a whole has been reached.

God has provided for there to be this incredible internet, I do not believe it is just a coincidence that we have it at this particular time now. It has become the major means for Ray to 'preach' and 'expose those those that contradict,' and also a place for believers to fellowship. The internet is providing an incredible increase in knowledge to the world as a whole, but think what it means for this work that is being accomplished through it. This all seems to be coming together in such a timely way and really no need for lots of people out preaching. Now I am not saying that people not useful in helping one another with this truth, just look at what is being done here on the forum. But God can bring anybody He so chooses here and so I do not believe we have the same need that the Apostles did to 'preach.' But this is just trying to give a different perspective.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[daywalker]

Should we avoid the orthodox church completely?...i find myself scouring the internet for further teaching and i get really impatient and turn off when i see that whoever is teaching believes in hell, am i correct in assuming that eternal torment believers have absolutely nothing to offer me now?...do they really know nothing after all their lives in study?
blessings
David
x

Matt 9:16-17

"No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch will pull away from the garment, making the tear worse. Neither do men pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved."


2 Cor 6:14-17

"Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people. Therefore come out from them and be separate," says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you."

[JohnMichael]

Mat 6:24 (WNT)

No man can be the bondservant of two masters; for either he will dislike one and like the other, or he will attach himself to one and think slightingly of the other. You cannot be the bondservants both of God and of gold.

Or put another way, you cannot be a bondservant of both the Truth and Babylon. God says:

Rev 18:4 (WNT) Then I heard another voice from Heaven, which said, "Come out of her, My people, that you may not become partakers in her sins, nor receive a share of her plagues.

He didn't say hang around and tiptoe through the tulips.

[Dave in Tenn]

Good question. The leaders of the Church are well-educated people who spend their lifes studying the Bible. So how it is possible that they are wrong? There are three options. The first, they know the Truth but omit some of its aspects for their personal reasons. The second, they don't see the Truth and don't know their teaching is wrong. The third, they can't accept the Truth, they see it but are not able to believe it.

All three, Dawidos.  The 'fourth' (and overarching) reason is that God is Sovereign.  He makes the blind to see.

[Grace]

He didn't say hang around and tiptoe through the tulips.

Love it John Michael!!  This made me  , especially when I think of how long I tiptoed.  Kinda makes your feet really hurt after awhile.

[Drew]

I have nothing profound to add to the excellent responses, David. Unless of course it is profound to say that I am extremely gratified to be associated with you and other people who are members of this forum. I'm a relatively new member and I have appreciated and learned from what has been shared with you today and Ray's teaching which, apparently, God intended to bring all of this (fellowship) about.

Drew 

[Stacey]

Should we avoid the orthodox church completely?...i find myself scouring the internet for further teaching and i get really impatient and turn off when i see that whoever is teaching believes in hell, am i correct in assuming that eternal torment believers have absolutely nothing to offer me now?...do they really know nothing after all their lives in study?
blessings
David
x

John 5:39
(ISV)  You examine the Scriptures carefully (maybe even a lifetime) because you suppose that in them you have eternal life. Yet they testify about me.

I wouldn't say that they know nothing. They definitely know something, they know a lot of stuff. Like most all of us did. What they don't know is what we are all learning now. We have been blessed to find or be led to discover some of the hidden treasure cloaked in the Scriptures that they have yet to be let in on.