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Author Topic: samson  (Read 2377 times)

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gmik

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samson
« on: May 02, 2011, 02:46:57 PM »

did samson REALLY kill 1,000 enemies w/ a jawbone?


What is the purpose of those kinds of stories.

Has Ray commented on this??
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daywalker

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Re: samson
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2011, 06:54:42 PM »

did samson REALLY kill 1,000 enemies w/ a jawbone?


What is the purpose of those kinds of stories.

Has Ray commented on this??

Samson also had 3,000 Judahites with him during that battle (Judges 15:11). Most likely, they assisted him in those killings since he was their leader (verse 20). That's just my opinion though.

Daywalker  8)
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Marky Mark

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Re: samson
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2011, 08:38:13 PM »

Quote
What is the purpose of those kinds of stories
.


1Co 10:1  Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2  And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3  And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4  And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
1Co 10:5  But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Co 10:6  Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Co 10:7  Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
1Co 10:8  Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
1Co 10:9  Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1Co 10:10  Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Co 10:11  Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

1Co 10:12  Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.




Peace...Mark
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gmik

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Re: samson
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2011, 10:25:13 PM »

Mark and Day..thanks

good object lessons for us...but were they actually true as well??
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daywalker

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Re: samson
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2011, 02:40:39 PM »

Mark and Day..thanks

good object lessons for us...but were they actually true as well??

No doubt the story is true. What exactly happened, though, seems to be open to interpretation.
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Duane

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Re: samson
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2011, 03:09:50 PM »

To doubt the story was true would be doubting the authenticity of the Bible, true?  You can't pick and choose what you do and don't believe in the Bible or couldn't it all be subject to interpretation as to it's validity?
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: samson
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2011, 03:15:57 PM »

1000 is usually a euphemism and does not mean exactly 1000. Usually means more.

Psa 50:10  For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
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mharrell08

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Re: samson
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2011, 03:45:14 PM »

To doubt the story was true would be doubting the authenticity of the Bible, true?  You can't pick and choose what you do and don't believe in the Bible or couldn't it all be subject to interpretation as to it's validity?


Hello Duane,

I don't believe Gena's question was to doubt the validity of the scriptures. I think she is asking did these events happen as literally as they are perceived. Similar to Adam & Eve...we're coming to an understanding over the years that God may not have literally used Adam's rib to create Eve. That's not to say it did not happen, just not exactly as popular translations interpret it to have happened...if that makes sense.

That's just an observation...I'm sure Gena can speak for herself.


Marques
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Extol

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Re: samson
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2011, 03:59:06 PM »

Hi Gena,

There is much violence in the Old Testament. Some people are uncomfortable with it, but as Mark said, these things are examples written for our admonition. They are types and shadows. I see the death in the Old Testament—the Israelites driving out the Canaanites, Samson slaying his enemies, David killing Goliath—as parables of overcoming the flesh. Everything in me must die before I am spiritually converted and transformed into the image of God, because “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Cor. 15:50).

Colossians 1:21-22 (Young’s Literal Translation)  And you -- once being alienated, and enemies in the mind, in the evil works, yet now did he reconcile, in the body of his flesh through the death, to present you holy, and unblemished, and unblameable before himself.

Hebrews 2:14 (YLT) Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death -- that is, the devil.

Judges 16:30 (YLT) and Samson saith, `Let me die with the Philistines,' and he inclineth himself powerfully, and the house falleth on the princes, and on all the people who [are] in it, and the dead whom he hath put to death in his death are more than those whom he put to death in his life.

Jesus did many wonderful things in life, but what He did in death was even greater. As Samson killed more enemies in his death, and Jesus destroyed the devil’s power in his death, so we are to “put to death the deeds of our body” (Rom. 8:13).

In his 12 Truths Paper, Ray talks more about the passage Mark mentioned:

TRUTH NUMBER 8

    [A] "Now ALL these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for OUR ADMONITION [to reprove, caution, warn, remind of obligation or duty, etc.], upon whom the ends of the world [‘eons—ages’] are come" (I Cor. 10:11).

    "Now these things were OUR EXAMPLES, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted" (I Cor. 10:6).

    [C] "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for OUR LEARNING…" (Rom. 15:4).

It is essential that we study the Old Testament Scriptures, for they are often the only key to the New Testament Scriptures. Paul used the Hebrew Scriptures to teach the foolish Galatians the New Covenant promises. Here’s but one great example:

    "Tell me, you that desire to be under the law, do you not HEAR the law? For it is written [in Old Covenant Scriptures] that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the FLESH; but he of the freewoman was by PROMISE. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which genders [gives birth] to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar IS mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

    "But the Jerusalem which is above is free, which IS the mother of us all.

    For it is written, ‘Rejoice, you barren that bear not; break forth and cry, you that travail not: for the desolate has many more children than she which has an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.


    "Nevertheless what saith the Scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman SHALL NOT be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not the children of the bondwoman, but of the free." (Gal. 4:21-31).

This is not only an allegory, but it is an allegory containing many metaphors as well. An allegory is when characters or events (such as Sarah and Agar and their children) represent abstract or spiritual ideas or principles. A metaphor is when one thing is said to be something else. (such as Agar actually being mount Sinai, which then represents or corresponds to Jerusalem in bondage). It may seem a little complicated at first, but once one sees all of the aspects of the allegory explained, this principle is quite easy to understand. Nevertheless, it does require the Spirit of God to believe it. It is this very fact (that the Church does not understand or believe this allegory) that the Church continues to believe that God’s true chosen people are STILL, "the children of the bondwoman"—"Jerusalem which NOW IS" over there in the State of Israel. Unbelievable.

This dear reader, is how the Old Covenant was written for "OUR admonition…"

Does anyone believe that this is the ONLY "allegory" in the Old Testament which is written for OUR admonition. Hardly—the Old Testament is FILLED with such allegories, but who has "ears to hear and eyes to see?" And "who will believe our report?" The whole book of Revelation is explained in the Old Testament Scriptures, but the theologians of this world do not and cannot discern it. They all teach that Revelation is a book of end-time, end-of-the-world eschatology. They have not a clue.

Paul constantly referred to the Old Testament Scriptures in his epistles, and he taught the whole plan of salvation from the Old Testament Scriptures, as they were the only Scriptures available during his ministry.

    "And that from a child you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus" (II Tim. 3:15).

These same Scriptures were now able to make Timothy wise unto salvation, but not until he first learned about Jesus Christ in the Old Testament Scriptures. These were the Scriptures that Jesus caused His apostles to understand after His resurrection:

What Jesus taught from the Old Testament Scriptures during His ministry was not even the tip of the iceberg.

The Truth of God, "thou shall surely die," and the lie of the Devil, "you shall NOT surely die," is for "our admonition." The story of Cain and Able is for "our admonition." The story of the flood is for "our admonition." The story of Babel is for "our admonition." The promises to Abraham and the meaning of faith are for "our admonition." The entire story in every single detail of Joseph and his brothers is for "our admonition." Do you wear your "coat of many colors," or do you hide it in the closet? You say: "What coat of many colors?"

Forget it—ask you pastor why he has never taught you how to wear your coat of many colors?

If you cannot identify yourself, personally, with all the stories and accounts in the Old Testament, then you have not even begun to overcome all the carnality that you are.



http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm
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gmik

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Re: samson
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2011, 04:52:28 PM »

wow... all your comments  have been so helpful- this thread has helped me alot.

allegories, metaphors--parables...didn't Ray once say the Bible was one big______(insert word)..

I knew Ray had something for me-

I have to identify w/ the story-see me in its carnality and try to purge it.... everything in me must die (Extol)

(thanks Marques- you understood what I meant)
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daywalker

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Re: samson
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2011, 01:36:21 PM »

Hebrews 2:14 (YLT) Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death -- that is, the devil.

Judges 16:30 (YLT) and Samson saith, `Let me die with the Philistines,' and he inclineth himself powerfully, and the house falleth on the princes, and on all the people who [are] in it, and the dead whom he hath put to death in his death are more than those whom he put to death in his life.

Jesus did many wonderful things in life, but what He did in death was even greater. As Samson killed more enemies in his death, and Jesus destroyed the devil’s power in his death, so we are to “put to death the deeds of our body” (Rom. 8:13).

Very interesting point, Extol, thanks for sharing! It makes me think of one of orthodox Christians' favorite questions in regards to Universal Reconciliation. They often ask: Why did Christ die on the cross, if everyone is going to be saved anyway? Of course, the clear answer is: He died to DESTROY Satan's power over death! Christ had to die so that He could be resurrected from the dead....so He could then lead us the way back to Life!

Daywalker  8)
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Drew

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Re: samson
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2011, 02:32:49 PM »

Have you ever entertained the thought "I'm bored" or heard the comment? Sure you have! How can a "called one" and hopefully "chosen one" ever say or think that, with holy spirit "forever stirring the POT"? Thanks for your thoughtful posts!

Drew
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