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Falling Away - Getting right the perspective

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tau:
Greetings

When one continues to read and re-read Ray's articles coupled with forum discussions at times I have an ongoing further discussions in my head and at times this goes on for so long that - sometimes, just sometimes i think i got it and move on, but then later i have nagging questions that don't seem to go till i can bring the matter to rest. So, having battled the perspective for a while I thought it best to nail my colours to the mask! ;D

I love Phillipians! :D
Php 3:13  Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
v. 14  I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Ray speaks about 3 spiritual thruths in LOF 13&14 - Sea, Earth and Heaven. I understand the chronological order and the process involved - , as in  sea -moving from lack of God knowledge - (sand of the sea) - little understanding (being called out) - earth - a much better understanding - and heaven - spiritual destiny of the overcomers (the price towards which Paul urges us).

What i am then trying to understand (and i think i understand a little) is if in the story of the prodigal son, his falling away was when he sat and fed with the pigs and realised that he left is first true love, and if Peter's realisation was when he realised that he denied Jesus as predicted, and if Paul's realisation was when he had a lighting encounter while still Saul. If I was to say for me the realisation was when I thought i had made it BIG and my house of cards came tumbling down and realised that i have been arrogant thinking i can make it  in all my business planning and engagements, would that be right? At one point I thought i understood what God was all about (I had Him figured out!!) but that did not last!! So, is falling away a life altering experience that draws one to God (may be serious car accident which one survives) after which the person decides to seek God or is it seeking God and finally finding his real truth like say we have in BT/ then what about all those with life changing experiences that may still not know, or is there more to all this falling away. Once you are aware of how the devil works, it becomes  very much unlikely that he may deceive you, provided you are on a full time WATCH!! But what about all those sincere people out there that really believe in God?

Kat:

Hi Tau,

Well to start with there is the 'first love' that we must come to. This is not when we come to the truth, but I see it as when we first come to a realization that Jesus Christ is real. This usually happens in church and we think of it then as being born again I guess. I remember it as a joyful feeling thinking that Christ was the Savior (though not having a real understanding of what that meant) but we are still blind at that point and in the 'sea' and very soon we do 'fall away' from this first love.

The way I see our 'falling away' is when we loose that new found joy of coming to Jesus Christ and get bogged down in... well anything else. I think with the prodigal son it was when he left his father house and went out into the world. Some are not devoted to serving in the church, maybe they attended just for show, but the cares of the world is of great importance to them. So their falling away is when work, job, family or any of the cares of the world supersede God. Most people remain here and never come to the truth in this life.

Paul (yes Jews) at some point in his life must have came to a knowledge that there truely is a God and felt a deep desire to serve and obey God. But he fall away when he became tangled up in serving the church, not God, to the point that he would seek out true believers and have them tortured and killed. Many of us fall away when we become caught up in the church duties and doctrines, so we are serving man or actually Satan, not God. This is when we are building our house on the sand, our house of cards. There are many that remain in this delusion/deception and are never brought to the truth, this is the many called. But for a few their house does fall and they are called out and their eyes opened.
 
You can see that this 'falling away' is usually a long process of 'falling away' before one has their eyes opened. I think I would say it was 25 yrs from my first love to when my house on the sand fail and then I think I went through several yrs of feeling no faith in the church or myself of ever coming to the truth. I felt so totally lost and worthless and then my eyes were opened.

So that's the sequence of events that happens as I see it. Hope this is helpful.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

JohnMichael:
My experience was 8 years between coming to Christ, my First Love and my house falling/me falling away. I lost all faith, and that lasted for 10 years. Then He stepped in and started to draw/drag me back.

I really like the illustration of Peter and Christ on the Sea of Galilee during the storm. As long as Peter kept his focus on Christ, he was able to overcome. When Peter let the cares of this world/trials/tribulations/sins (the spiritual storm) bog him down, he began to sink. Some people, who God preordained, come back up in this lifetime. Others do not, but they will before it's all said and done. :)

John

tau:
Its amazing at times how little one really understand. Just when I I thought I understood, I realise I understand very little! So, if 'falling away' has to do with when one went to seek out God and did a 'found and lost' on Him due to the cares of this world, then how are we to REALLY know we have found him? I get that God is calling and choosing us according to his predestined 'programme', but since none of us can be sure whether we are making it in the first ressurection or not (I am not speaking about Peter's 'making your election sure'), I want to make sure I really understand when I say 'I found God' (or he found me) and REALLY know it (not mean it), what is that like. There was a period I used to question things of God to a point I would find material that supported my assertion, I then moved to being on the fence without really taking sides, then oneday out of nowhere I realised that something in me has changed, I no longer am on the fence on matters of God, I am now fully on His side, God's truth are absolute, there is no middle ground. From then onwards I had a thirst to seek out God, I now started reading and listening with understanding I never had before, for the first time in my life (atleast I think) I was sure that there had to be more to what God was all about than the little I was getting from the church, so the thirst drove me to seek Him out some more and I really started searching for his truth. It was only when I came to BT that I kind of stopped the search, many of my questions and presumptions were not only answered, many were blown away, I had to decided whether I accept the God truth as plain as it was given to me or mix it with my precarious church and individual understanding accumulated over the years, i decided on the former.

So, for my perspective then, and to make sure that one really understand how to press on towards the higher calling,  would that experience count for 'falling away' or am I still in the dark? I mean when I look back and see how much in darkness I have been, I thank God for his grace., 'i once was lost, but now i'm found, was blind, but now i see' ;D! Yes very good, BUT what is it that I now see? ??? is it the fact that i cared more about worldly things, or the fact that i understood little of what God is all about? and even if I now understand, what does that really mean? But I do not want to be ignorant like Paul said some of us could be, and find that all the while I think I understand , I am still lost :'(. So, if 'falling away' has to do with finding God and getting caught up in the cares of the world to only realise that you are lost, then how then do you know that you have 'fallen away'? would it be when one understand the truth as espoused here in BT or is it even deeper than that. I would like to think is important to run according to the rules, I don't want to find myself being likened to the 5 foolish virgins  ;D!

Kat:

Hi Tau,


--- Quote ---So, if 'falling away' has to do with finding God and getting caught up in the cares of the world to only realise that you are lost, then how then do you know that you have 'fallen away'? would it be when one understand the truth as espoused here in BT or is it even deeper than that.
--- End quote ---

Well I don't think you can know it's happening (falling away) at the time it is happening, I believe you can only tell you fall away when you LOOK BACK. So once your eyes are opened to these truths, then you are able to look back and understand these things.


--- Quote ---then oneday out of nowhere I realised that something in me has changed, I no longer am on the fence on matters of God, I am now fully on His side, God's truth are absolute, there is no middle ground. From then onwards I had a thirst to seek out God, I now started reading and listening with understanding I never had before, for the first time in my life (atleast I think) I was sure that there had to be more to what God was all about than the little I was getting from the church, so the thirst drove me to seek Him out some more and I really started searching for his truth. It was only when I came to BT that I kind of stopped the search, many of my questions and presumptions were not only answered, many were blown away, I had to decided whether I accept the God truth as plain as it was given to me or mix it with my precarious church and individual understanding accumulated over the years, i decided on the former.
--- End quote ---


To me what you were saying about how you felt when you started reading at the BT site should give you every reason to believe you have found the truth and Jesus Christ. Your own words express the great difference between how you struggled to find truth before you came here and then once you did how you didn't need to search anymore. Why did you stop searching? Because you knew this was it! And you know because the Holy Spirit puts it in your heart to know.

We all get a glimpse of Jesus when we first come to see He is real, that is our first love. But it is just a fleeting glimpse and we quickly get carried away by other things in life and that is when we fall away. So all those years of struggling in the darkness was when you had fallen away, you were still in darkness. But now you have come into His marvelous light/truth that's why you stopped searching. But now is no time to relax, because you want to show Him your good intention now that you are on the right course  :)

2Tim 2:15  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

merecy, peace and love
Kat

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