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There will be no peace in Jerusalem
Extol:
Hi Pat,
As others have suggested, it is a good idea to look for the spiritual application of Scriptures like this. In Ray's Twelve Truths paper (http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm), Truth Number One is "first the natural, then the spiritual":
[A] "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the Last Adam [Jesus Christ] was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is NATURAL; and afterward that which is SPIRITUAL" (I Cor. 15:45-46).
"It is sown [first] a NATURAL BODY [a physical body which dies]; it is raised [afterward] a SPIRITUAL BODY [which is made immortal and never dies]…" (I Cor. 15:44).
[C] "Who shall change our [first] VILE BODY, that it may be fashioned like unto His [afterward] GLORIOUS BODY…" (Phil. 3:21).
[D] "If I have told you EARTHLY things [first], and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of HEAVENLY [spiritual] things [afterward]?" (John 3:12).
This discussion of peace reminded me of the story of Jehu and Joram:
II Kings 9:14-24 (New Living Translation)
So Jehu son of Jehoshaphat, son of Nimshi, led a conspiracy against King Joram. (Now Joram had been with the army at Ramoth-gilead, defending Israel against the forces of King Hazael of Aram. But King Joram was wounded in the fighting and returned to Jezreel to recover from his wounds.) So Jehu told the men with him, “If you want me to be king, don’t let anyone leave town and go to Jezreel to report what we have done.”
Then Jehu got into a chariot and rode to Jezreel to find King Joram, who was lying there wounded. King Ahaziah of Judah was there, too, for he had gone to visit him. The watchman on the tower of Jezreel saw Jehu and his company approaching, so he shouted to Joram, “I see a company of troops coming!”
“Send out a rider to ask if they are coming in peace,” King Joram ordered.
So a horseman went out to meet Jehu and said, “The king wants to know if you are coming in peace.”
Jehu replied, “What do you know about peace? Fall in behind me!”
The watchman called out to the king, “The messenger has met them, but he’s not returning.”
So the king sent out a second horseman. He rode up to them and said, “The king wants to know if you come in peace.”
Again Jehu answered, “What do you know about peace? Fall in behind me!”
The watchman exclaimed, “The messenger has met them, but he isn’t returning either! It must be Jehu son of Nimshi, for he’s driving like a madman.”
“Quick! Get my chariot ready!” King Joram commanded.
Then King Joram of Israel and King Ahaziah of Judah rode out in their chariots to meet Jehu. They met him at the plot of land that had belonged to Naboth of Jezreel. 22 King Joram demanded, “Do you come in peace, Jehu?”
Jehu replied, “How can there be peace as long as the idolatry and witchcraft of your mother, Jezebel, are all around us?”
Then King Joram turned the horses around and fled, shouting to King Ahaziah, “Treason, Ahaziah!” But Jehu drew his bow and shot Joram between the shoulders. The arrow pierced his heart, and he sank down dead in his chariot.
This was one of my favorite stories when I was a youngster (mostly because of the violence 8) ). Then, it was little more than an exciting story of good versus evil, but now I know that there's more to it. Truth Number Eight:
[A] "Now ALL these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for OUR ADMONITION [to reprove, caution, warn, remind of obligation or duty, etc.], upon whom the ends of the world [‘eons—ages’] are come" (I Cor. 10:11).
"Now these things were OUR EXAMPLES, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted" (I Cor. 10:6).
[C] "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for OUR LEARNING…" (Rom. 15:4).
This is more than a story about war and peace in the ancient kingdom of Israel. It can still serve as an example to us, even today, and provide spiritual guidance. The key is verse 22, which I've highlighted above. We will not have true peace until all of the idols of the heart have been burned out.
For a more personal example, I saw this story come alive in me after I first came to Bible Truths. In most versions, the word "idolatry" in v. 22 is translated as "whoredoms", "harlotries", "prostitutions", etc. When I was sleeping with the Mother of Harlots, I was being tormented with the thought of people suffering for eternity. There could be no peace in me as long as the "harlotry of my mother was all around me", with all of her lies masquerading as Truth. Like the Church in Thyatira, I was "tolerating that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet and is teaching and beguiling my servants to practice fornication and eat food sacrificed to idols." (Rev. 2:20).
When I came to Bible Truths, my eyes were opened. Jezebel was thrown out the window, and I finally had inner peace:
II Kings 9:30-33
When Jezebel, the queen mother, heard that Jehu had come to Jezreel, she painted her eyelids and fixed her hair and sat at a window. When Jehu entered the gate of the palace, she shouted at him, “Have you come in peace, you murderer? You’re just like Zimri, who murdered his master!”
Jehu looked up and saw her at the window and shouted, “Who is on my side?” And two or three eunuchs looked out at him. “Throw her down!” Jehu yelled. So they threw her out the window, and her blood spattered against the wall and on the horses. And Jehu trampled her body under his horses’ hooves.
Joel:
There has been peace in the geographical Jerusalem. :) The Prince of Peace, Isaiah 9:6
Luke 2:14
Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
But Jesus said this before he was crucified.
Luke 19:41-44
And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it.
Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this day, the things, which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hide from thine eyes.
For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
Joel
longhorn:
It's kinda like saying me and my ex-wife will get back together. Not going to happen. No scripture to back this up though.
Longhorn
daywalker:
--- Quote from: Grace on May 18, 2011, 12:25:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: daywalker on May 18, 2011, 11:29:13 AM ---
Notice this is a Psalm of King David, who reigned over Judah and Israel in the capital city of Jerusalem. Naturally, he would pray for his city and for his nation. We, too, can apply this to "New Jerusalem" (Rev 21:2), the Jerusalem which is "above" and "free" and "mother of us all" (Gal 4:26).
Daywalker 8)
--- End quote ---
Ro 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Is New Jerusalem also carnally minded? I thought the New Jerusalem was not but was spiritual. ???
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Re 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Grace
--- End quote ---
Forgive me, Grace, as I don't understand the confusion, nor why you asked if New Jerusalem is carnally minded?
There the thrones for judgment stand, the thrones of the house of David. Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: "May those who love you be secure. May there be peace within your walls and security within your citadels." Psalm 122:5-7
Thanks to GOD, and to Ray's teachings, we understand that in the Hebrew Testament are prophecies which--though they appear to be talking about the nation of Israel--speak of the Messiah, Jesus Christ and of His coming kingdom (which Paul calls Jerusalem above, and John calls New Jerusalem). In several passages we read of a time when Jerusalem will be the center of the world to which many nations and people will come to seek, hear and learn of GOD and His ways. Therefore, this above passage in question is not at all talking about Jerusalem located in Israel of the Middle East, but of the New Jerusalem which is above and mother of us all--as we read in the passages I mentioned, which you also quoted.
Here's one example from the O.T. which isn't talking about the physical city of Jerusalem:
This is what the LORD Almighty says: “Many peoples and the inhabitants of many cities will yet come, and the inhabitants of one city will go to another and say, ‘Let us go at once to entreat the LORD and seek the LORD Almighty. I myself am going.’ And many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the LORD Almighty and to entreat him.” This is what the LORD Almighty says: “In those days ten men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.’” Zechariah 8:20-23 [See also Isaiah 2:1-5, Psalm 65; Micah 4:1-7, 7:12-18]
We know through Paul's epistles that these "Jews" who are being grabbed by "ten men" are not physical Jews, but "inward" Jews who have been "circumcised of the heart" (Romans 2:28-29).
Hope this helps.
Daywalker 8)
gmik:
Pat, Jesus prayed for this cup to be taken from Him when He knew It would not be. So I guess we can pray when we know the answer...it may be God's Will for us to pray anyway.
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