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Author Topic: Ray and his view on Astrology  (Read 4059 times)

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zander

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Ray and his view on Astrology
« on: May 19, 2011, 09:55:25 AM »

Hi all

I dont often post here but i have a question if someone can answer me, especially if they know Ray well.

On March 2nd, Ray placed the subject in his answered emails section.  It seems he doesnt believe that the planets have any significance or show any sign regarding the existence of man and his past, present future.

Some time ago, i recall Ray telling me that all the planets and their existence was key to the life on this earth.  For example, without Saturn, there would be no earth, it would lack the gravitational equilibrium required to stabilise it.  Also, in the bible it states that the moon often gave signs for various events.

Now i am not saying i totally believe in it (however i am curious to know why certain events fall in line with certain planetary movements, which seems to happen when i look at life..) but i am trying to clarify Ray's position on it.

Can anyone tell me?
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Craig

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Re: Ray and his view on Astrology
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2011, 12:09:29 PM »

Zander are you confusing Astrology with Astronomy?   Astronomically speaking Ray is correct, but I don't think astrology has any part in it.

Craig
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zander

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Re: Ray and his view on Astrology
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2011, 01:51:35 PM »

Hi Craig

I dont believe to be confusing them, as i understand they're separate.  I can see why Ray from an astronomical viewpoint sees that the planets are important for our very existence.

I am of course thinking Ray's answer is no, he doesnt believe astrological viewpoints on such things.

I wonder why.  Were planets and the moon not seen as signs in the old biblical days?  Indeed the new moon was used many times in the book of Samuel as a sign for things.  I have also noticed its relevance in today's life, without going into details.

I dont rest my whole conscience on such things and like you i know God is in charge but i cant help seeing how the planets can sometimes move in harmony with events (according to his purpose).

I think its an unknown area and i am surprised Ray writes it off completely, if, as i understand, he does.
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mharrell08

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Re: Ray and his view on Astrology
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2011, 02:01:48 PM »

I think its an unknown area and i am surprised Ray writes it off completely, if, as i understand, he does.


The issue seems to be one's expectations about Ray. Ray's never stated he knows everything about everything but sometimes we treat him so, and that's not fair to him. We can't expect Ray to know about every event in the universe and it's spiritual significance. He's not God.

If one of us deems something of importance and Ray doesn't bat an eye, what then? Do we change our thinking to match his or simply go about our business? I hope it would be the latter. We don't all have to think exactly the same about every single thing in this universe, it's unreasonable.

I'm not jumping on your case or anything Zander, just trying to provide another perspective. No offense



Marques
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zander

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Re: Ray and his view on Astrology
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2011, 02:11:48 PM »

Nah not at all mate :)

I definitely don't try to think like Ray thinks.  Hes a very wise man and i thank him for his contributions theyre astounding. 

As he has such an intelligent brain, its good for me to know why and how we might differ on something like astrology.  Its good to get his perspective even though we may disagree.  I dont know, ive never spoken with him directly over it for too long a period.

But all good, i appreciate your response.
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Kat

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Re: Ray and his view on Astrology
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2011, 03:11:15 PM »


Hi Zander,

Well here is where Ray is talking about planet movement.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html --------------

[comment: the sun keeps the earth in the gravitational orbit, it’s a balance so the planets won’t go flying off into space.]
Yes, but not completely. All of the planet bodies are needful of it, but if you pull Saturn out or if you pull out Mercury, eventually we’re going to die. They all balance this elliptical orbit and the speed and everything  So if you pull any one of the planets (well maybe not Pluto-laughter), but if you pull out Jupiter or Saturn or Neptune and you pull them out of the solar system, we will die.  

[comment: what would happen first, say if you pulled the sun out? Would it get dark first, what would happen first the gravitational pull or the lose of life?]  
Well either way, we’re gone.  

[comment: If the sun was pulled out, how soon would the gravitational pull take us out into the universe?]  
The gravitational pull to the outside is very slight. A scientist said in relation to astrology, as they say you are born under a certain star, it has to do with the gravitational pull on something. Well he said there is a thousand times more gravity exerted on the new born child by the physical body of the doctor, then the whole outer space combined. It was the doctor’s physical mass holding the baby, that exerts a thousand times more gravitational pull on the baby, which is almost infinitesimally nothing. But still it is a thousand times more than the sun or any other body. It’s very very little.

Now you get the big orbit of the earth. You have that because there is no friction in space, strictly centrifugal force keeping it out there. Speed will keep it out there, but then you got this crazy orbit thing. If you had round orbits it would make sense, but you have an elliptical orbit.  

So if it flies by the sun and goes all the way out here and makes the swing and come back, why doesn’t it come back and crash into the sun?  Well it’s far enough out and the speed that it by-passes it, without that happening. But it needs all the other planets to do their thing. They’re all orbiting and doing their thing to the fraction of a thousandth of a second, it is perfect timing.

The earth is so finitely balanced with a thousand other things, if you move any one of them, we’re all dead!  
----------------------------------------------------------------

Now I think I understand your question, would there validity in the planets/stars being signs of events that happen on earth.

Gen 1:14  And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years.

There is a good example of this with the Star that signified the coming of our Savior. Didn't the Magi, being star gazers/astronomers, locate baby Jesus by following signs in the heavens? I do not believe that these Magi were astrologers that believe that celestial bodies influence human affairs, but astronomers which is the study of the motions and natures of celestial bodies, like planets, stars, and galaxies. So there is Scriptural reference to this.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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JohnMichael

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Re: Ray and his view on Astrology
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2011, 03:12:18 PM »

It never gets boring here.

Recently, some members posted they thought that the Sun revolved around the Earth.

Now Astrology.

What next?  Elvis is still alive.

You didn't know?!  ;D ;D ;D

On topic, the danger is the stars and planets are used for divination (basis of Astrology), and divination is a form of witchcraft - which is rebellion against God. It's existence proves that God is using it for a purpose - what exactly that purpose is only He knows fully.
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gmik

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Re: Ray and his view on Astrology
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2011, 08:01:04 PM »

GPS...funny John!

God is definetly a creator of ORDER- all "things' run the way they were made to

so are the solar systems, planets, big bang, swiss watch, computer etc etc

So, maybe when time runs out (not May 21) maybe it will be done in Order w/ scientific principles all working the way God had planned.

I think it may be when our Sun dies...who can know?

But God is the author and creator of Science, so He created Astronomy...

Astrology altho in use 1,000's of years seem very man made to me.

IMHO
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Duane

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Re: Ray and his view on Astrology
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2011, 10:18:45 PM »

When I was in college the subject of astrology was brought up.  The teacher reminded us that when the astrological signs were assigned, the belief was that the sun circled around the earth, so ALL the alignments that are involved are WAY OFF!
AN ASSUMPTION BASED ON A FALSE PREMISE CAN'T BE TRUE!--Aristotle
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markn902

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Re: Ray and his view on Astrology
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2011, 11:02:43 PM »

When I was in college the subject of astrology was brought up.  The teacher reminded us that when the astrological signs were assigned, the belief was that the sun circled around the earth, so ALL the alignments that are involved are WAY OFF!
AN ASSUMPTION BASED ON A FALSE PREMISE CAN'T BE TRUE!--Aristotle

Wow that's a really good point about the astrological signs. I hadn't thought of that before guess I learned something today. As for the topic.. :) I think it's worth pointing out that back in BC people worshiped things like the Sun and other astrological things.. As for God using these things in the Old Testament I see it as just using what was important , or at least perceived as important, by people back then. I guess that doesn't answer the question. I'm actually a bit unclear on what the question is but thats my two cents.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Ray and his view on Astrology
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2011, 12:28:05 AM »

You asked about Ray's views on astrology.  This is a pretty good exchange here:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12843.0.html
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Dave in Tenn

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Re: Ray and his view on Astrology
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2011, 12:37:13 AM »

That may not go directly to your question, but ought to help you understand what Ray was talking about the planets affecting human life.

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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

JohnMichael

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Re: Ray and his view on Astrology
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2011, 12:47:27 AM »

Taken from wikipedia:

Astrology is a system of divination founded on the notion that the relative positions of celestial bodies are signs of or—more controversially among astrologers—causes of destiny, personality, human affairs, and natural events.

Divination, according to dictionary.com, is the practice of attempting to foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge by occult or supernatural means.

Exo 22:18  Thou shalt notH3808 suffer a witch to live.H2421 H3784

H3784
כּשׁף
kâshaph
kaw-shaf'
A primitive root; properly to whisper a spell, that is, to inchant or practise magic: - sorcerer, (use) witch (-craft).

Leviticus 19:26 You shall not eat anything with the blood, nor shall you practice divination or soothsaying.

Deuteronomy 18:14 For these nations which you will dispossess listened to soothsayers and diviners; but as for you, the Lord your God has not appointed such for you.

2 Chronicles 33:6 Also he caused his sons to pass through the fire in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom; he practiced soothsaying, used witchcraft and sorcery, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke Him to anger.


I'm not saying any of this from a position of condemnation or judgment. I was guilty of the sin of witchcraft for many years until God lead me to repent and then delivered me, so it is my sole desire to warn you and help. Astrology is a form of witchcraft. It is a slippery slope - speaking from personal experience.

Blessings,
John
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Duane

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Re: Ray and his view on Astrology
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2011, 08:45:22 AM »

I once asked my father about his view re: life on other planets and he gave a unique answer.  He said that if there is intelligent life on other planets or in different worlds there would, no doubt , be sin.  So did Jesus go to all these other planets and live a perfect life and then die for THEIR sins , too?
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Craig

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Re: Ray and his view on Astrology
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2011, 09:47:15 AM »

Duane are you asking this to provoke thought or do you really expect anyone here or the whole world for that matter to be able to answer this? :)

Craig
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One Love

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Re: Ray and his view on Astrology
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2011, 10:23:21 AM »

Duane
If you're studing astrology it would be good to look in libraries or other portals, I think Mr. Smith has given a clear idea of this topic, if you're not studing astrology just leave it be to the people who study this, it is not given to men to know all.
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Joel

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Re: Ray and his view on Astrology
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2011, 02:35:00 AM »

Astrology= More of Babylon's garbage.
Isaiah 47:12-15
Call out the demon hordes you've worshiped all these years. Call on them to help you strike deep terror into many hearts again. You have advisors by the ton-your astrologers and stargazers, who try to tell you what the future holds. But they are as useless as dried grass burning in the fire. They cannot even deliver themselves! You'll get no help from them at all.
Theirs is no fire to to sit beside to make you warm! And all your friends of childhood days shall slip away and disappear, unable to help.

Joel
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Duane

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Re: Ray and his view on Astrology
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2011, 04:44:00 AM »

I thought my question was so rediculous that it answered itself. Ofcourse God (and Jesus) didn't set up a duplicate universe for the salvation of an "other world" experience.
Also, if I had concerns like this that would generate such concerns/comments, it would violate the "rules of the FORUM".
I am sorry for my truly sloppy attempt at a rhetorical question.
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zander

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Re: Ray and his view on Astrology
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2011, 11:34:48 AM »

Interesting views guys.

Just to add, i've spoken to Elvis and he doesnt much believe in astrology either so he asked me to consult bin Laden but he was busy.   :P

Only one point i want to make, someone said here about common sense and to use this if all else fails.  If there is something ive learned from Ray and the scriptures, its that common sense and matters of the spirit / unknown can be, can be really very far apart. 

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