> General Discussions
The subjects of Lying and God's sovereignty
arion:
The choosen are all going through our lake of fire in this life John as I know that you can testify to. We either judge ourselves now with God's help or we shall be judged later. Kind of like the Mr. Goodwrench commercial 'You can pay me now or pay me later.' We are all going to pay one way or another. There is a lot to overcome in this life. For consideration there were also time when Jesus was evasive and didn't directly answer a question as well.
Joh 7:8-10
Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come. When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee. But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.
Luk 24:28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.
markn902:
Hello everyone just thought I would chime in
firstly "can it be ok to lie?"..of course it can lying is not black and white quite to the contrary. an example..
A man is hiding Jews from the Nazis they come and ask him about them.no brainer right?
I think when it comes to issues such as these they are issues of conscience and, for me, when in a situation that seems unclear I ask 2 questions of myself
1.what is the motivation in my heart?
2.what is the effect of my actions?
If both of those things are good and can sit well with me then the action itself becomes irrelevant as I am not worried about another man judging me.
Secondly, I thought that it was untrue to say God CAN'T lie but rather he does not lie. Or to say he chooses to "can't lie" if that makes any sense. I guess that is semantics in a way but that's how I thought it. :)
zander:
The post by JohnMichael is a very good one as it says in scripture "all liars" have their part in the fire. So if you are lying in order to save someones life - is that an extra part of your consience thats then held accountable in the "fire"?
Ray says "The commandment is not against lying, but rather against "bearing false witness against a neighbor."
So, basically, is he saying we can lie so long as we dont harm anyone and its for a good purpose? So if my boss asks me if i have done a peice of work - and i havent because i was pressed for time and i risked his/her wrath if they knew i hadnt - is that bad? (supposing also the boss never found out either) I am sure there is no hard and fast answer to this
Kat:
I think that as John stated, "Though I can see that it may be the intent behind the lie that is the real issue." that seems to be the key to understanding this.
1Sa 16:7 But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for the LORD sees not as man sees; man looks on the outward appearance, but the LORD looks on the heart."
We all know the 10 commandments and how we should obey 'the letter of the law,' which is to strictly obey exactly what it says. But we are now being judged by the spirit of the law or what is really in our heart.
2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
This does not release us from obeying the law, but takes us to a must higher degree of obedience. Jesus even gave us examples of this.
Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, "You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.'
v. 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.
Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, "You shall not commit adultery.
v. 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
So it does seem like it's the real intent of the heart that God looks at and for which you will be judged.
Luke 6:43 "For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.
v. 44 For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.
v. 45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Deborah-Leigh:
Act 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. ~ :)
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