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Will We Ever 'See' the Father?
mharrell08:
First, if you could, please read the excerpt below:
Excerpt from 2011 bible study 'Is Jesus God?/Are you Afraid of God?' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12896.0.html):
I have a little bit more that I want to cover about our relationship with God and how we see the Father in Christ.
I’m going to ask A question. Jesus Christ said no man had ever seen the Father or seen His shape or heard His voice. So I have wondered for a long time, will we ever? What do you think Gordon? [I think yes.] You think yes, okay. There is a Scripture that says we will see Him as He is.
1John 3:2 …for we shall see Him as He is.
There is the Scripture. But there is another one that says [Comment: It can’t be anything different though.] No it’s got to fit. Of course I have a way with a crowbar to make it fit. No. In 1 Tim. 6 I had trouble figuring out who this was talking about, Christ or the Father, for a long time. Still some translations put it one way or the other. See what you think.
1Tim 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
v. 14 That you keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
v. 15 Which in His times He shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
Who is that? [Comment: Jesus] Well He is the King of kings and Lord of lords. But lets read on.
1Tim 6:16 Who only has immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.
Diaglott
1Tim 6:15 Which in His own season that blessed and only Potentate will exhibit the King of kings;
So who is doing the exhibiting? [Comment: Jesus.] Jesus? Well it sounds like it will be the Father. Gordon? [I’m not sure.] [Comment: Sounds like Jesus is going to exhibit His Father, manifest His Father.] I would put it maybe the other way, but let’s see.
Diaglott
1Tim 6:16 the only One possessing immortality, inhabiting light inaccessible, who no man has seen, nor is able to see;
Can this be said of Jesus?
New American Bible
1Tim 6:15 That the Blessed and only Ruler will manifest at the proper time, the King of kings and Lord of lords.
v. 16 Who alone has immortality, who dwells in the unapproachable light and whom no human being has seen are can see.
You think that is speaking of Christ? [Comment: The first part is talking about the Father and then it’s talking about Jesus.] But then again do we know that’s the proper translation.
The living Bible is pretty good on some of this stuff.
The living Bible
1Tim 6:15 For in due season Christ will be revealed from heaven by the blessed and all mighty God, the King of kings and Lord of lords.
v. 16 Who alone can never die…
Now it’s interesting that when we know that immortality means deathlessness or you can never die. But when you say “can never die,” then it seems you rule out Jesus Christ. He died. Listen to this.
v. 16 …who lives in light so terrible that no human being (Jesus Christ is a human being) can approach Him, no mere man has ever seen Him, nor ever will.
So I’m not 100% sure on that. So I’ve wondered… we know that no man has ever seen the Father, Jesus Christ said so. We know that no human can see, not only the Father, but can’t see the glory of God no matter which divinity or member of the Godhead it would be. Because when it was Moses, it wasn’t just Elohim, you would say well that’s the Father, no that was Yahweh Elohim. So if Yahweh is Jesus, then He also has a glory, that no man can see.
We know He has a glory beyond any human being, because when He was transfigured on the mountain there, it says He had this radiance about Him. But it certainly wasn’t on the magnitude that it would kill you to look at Him, because John, Peter and James were there.
So I’m not quite sure yet. You may say what does it matter and so on and so forth? Well to me it is really an interesting concept, to know the answer to it. You know they say familiarity breeds contempt and that certainly is true to a large extent on the human level.
Those that work around the president everyday, after a while they can lose that awe and respect. I don’t think most of his cabinet do, but you know it can happen. You can think I can see his problems, he’s just like us, he’s no better than us. Sort of an attitude.
So maybe if we could see God on an equal level in eternity, that could breed familiarity, I don’t know. What do ya’ll think about that? [Comment: What is the question?] Will we ever see our Father? [Comment: It said “mere men,” us.] Yeah. [Comment: In His coming kingdom.] Well except for the Scripture here. If this is talking about the Father. Gordon do you know of another Scripture like this one in 1Timothy? Do you know of another Scripture even close to that, where it says no human being can approach Him, no mere man has ever seen Him, nor ever will? Is there another Scripture anywhere close to that? [I don’t know.] I don’t know of any. But then we have Scriptures like 1 John 3... I know this is suppose to be a Bible study where I teach you things. You get to see some of my thought processes.
There are no definite right or wrong answers. You can answer a simple yes/no or comment further if you feel lead to. Just would like to hear your thoughts.
Thanks
Marques
CEO:
Hi
As long as we are in "maybe" land I will take a stab. I feel that after our change is come from physical to spiritual, then we will see Him as he is. If he is our Father (in spirit) then when we are spirit we will see our Father. I am looking forward to Ray sharing his revelation/thoughts with us on this.
Askseeknock
CEO
Duane:
Marques...I truly enjoy your deep "ponderisms". What a beautiful, inquistive mind God gave you!
My two cents. I agree with the above post.
daywalker:
I would say, "yes", we will SEE the Father someday. Here's my thinking:
"See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is." 1 John 3:2
Now, some could use Christ's statement that "He who has seen Me has seen the Father" as a counter. However, I believe this next verse further supports my stance:
"Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has SEEN the Father." John 6:47
How did Christ ever "see" the Father? It wouldn't make sense for Him to say He's seen the Father "through" Himself (Jesus). So, then, I'd say that, Yes, Jesus has actually (somehow) seen the Father visibly. And if we are to become exactly like Christ is, then I'd say, just as Christ has "seen" the Father, so shall we.
And, furthermore:
"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form." John 5:37
Notice that Jesus never said the Father does not have a "voice", and He never said the Father does not have a "form"; He just said we've never "heard" or "seen" them.
so that's my thoughts...
Daywalker 8)
Duane:
Daywalker/John...You nailed it again! Thank you for your research and substantiating verses. It is much appreciated.
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