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"Soul Sleep"
Ian:
Hello,
I have a question regarding what happens when one dies. Now, I believe that when one dies, they are dead not alive somewhere else; "sleeping" until resurrection.
Recently, however, I have come across some confusing passages and was hoping that you could (would) please help me?
The Scriptural support I have for "soul sleep" (a term which is actually a misnomer), are the following verses: Ps. 115:17, Ps. 6:5, Ps. 146:6, Is. 38:18a, Joshua 1:1-2, Job 14:13-14, Ps. 49:15, Ecclesiastes 9:10, 1 Corinthians 15:18-19, 1 Thes. 4:13-14,...
However, while researching the subject, I ran across some verses the other night that perplexed me. They are: Hebrews 9:27, 2 Corinthians 5:6-8, Philippians 1:23, 2 Corinthians 12:4, 1 Peter 3:18-20...
I still believe in this doctrine, but I'm pretty confused right now. Please help me.
Ian.
P.S. Yes, I have read Ray's material regarding this "doctrine". That is why I believe what I do.
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Ian
Welcome to the Forum.
It is refreshing to see a Beren who is thinking, seeking, investigating and is at liberty to express the desire for deeper insight and understanding into the ways of Father and Son.
What perplexes me, is the comfort that Dictatorial Doctrinal Religion professes in placing focus and physical idols to keep our eyes on the death of Jesus and not the Glorious message that is contained in the victory over death in the Resurrection of Jesus.
The Kingdom of God is within. They agree. Yet do they teach that the King is in the Kingdom, within? Nope ~ :D
I know a few who research, think and have a vista of insight that is magnificent. Maybe they will see you and drop you a line ~ :)
Arc
grapehound:
Hi Ian, welcome to the Forum.
Can you please elaborate a little on why the second list of verses perplex you?
Grape
Kat:
Hi Ian,
Welcome to the forum :)
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
For the many this is speaking about a physical death in this life and then resurrected to judgment in the lake of fire. For the few now we are dying to self and are being judged now, "for the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God" (1Pe 4:17).
2Cor 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Paul had just said in verse 1 "I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord."
Here is a email explanation for 2 Cor. 5:8.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=1265.0 ------
Most Christians believe that this verse read: "to be absent from the body IS to be present with the Lord." Not so. Even the King James doesnot have the word "is" in it, but rather "and."
Here is maybe the very best translation on this verse:
"Rather to be away from homes, out of the body, and to COME home unto the Lord" (Rotherham's Bible).
Either way: King James--"and TO BE [FUTURE]..." Or Rotherham--"and to COME..." It is something that happens sometime after death, not at death. It, of course, happens at the Resurrection of the dead, which is yet future.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Php 1:23 For I am pressed together by the two: having a desire to depart and to be with Christ, which is far better.
This verse is the same as in the email. Paul was speaking about when he died the next moment of his consciousness would be at the resurrection and he knew he would be with Christ, as if in a instant.
Hope this helps.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
daywalker:
Hello Ian, welcome to the BT Forum!
Hebrews 9:27-28 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so also Christ died once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him.
Not sure what the confusion is here, this passage is pretty self-explanatory. Everyone dies; then those who face judgment are resurrected in the "resurrection to judgment". (John 5:29; Acts 24:15) Can you please explain what confuses you?
2 Corinthians 5:6-8 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. We live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
Don't make the common mistake of misinterpreting this verse as if it said "TO BE absent from the body is TO BE present with the Lord". That's not what it means or implies. Paul talks often of dead people being "put to repose" or asleep until resurrection, as you already know seeing that you included a few quotes from his letters in your post.
When all else fails, read the context. The key to understanding this passage is in the previous 5 verses:
For we are aware that, if our terrestrial tabernacle house should be demolished, we have a building of God, a house not made by hands, eonian, in the heavens. For in this also we are groaning, longing to be dressed in our habitation which is out of heaven, if so be that, being dressed also, we shall not be found naked. For we also, who are in the tabernacle, are groaning, being burdened, on which we are not wanting to be stripped, but to be dressed, that the mortal may be swallowed up by life. Now He Who produces us for this same longing is God, Who is also giving us the earnest of the spirit. - Concordant Literal Translation
Notice the italicized parts. This "terrestrial tabernacle house" that Paul is speaking about is our body (with its sinful lusts and carnal mind). We are groaning and burdened because of our daily battles against our sinful nature. That's why Paul says we prefer to be away from the body, so that we can be free from its sinful lusts and cravings. Being "at home with the Lord" is not speaking of Heaven. When Jesus returns and sets up His Kingdom, we will be "at home" with Him.
Philippians 1:23 I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.
Don't make the assumption that Paul thinks he will be "instantly" with Christ once he dies. But let's also understand that when we die, we "return" the same state we were before we were born: unconsciousness. So, think about it this way: Paul is dead right now. He's been dead for over 1,900 years. But he doesn't "know" it (Ecclesiastes 9:5). When Paul is resurrected, the last thing he will remember is how he died. So, from his perspective, it will seem as though he departed, and then was at home with Christ! That's good and comforting news if you ask me!
2 Corinthians 12:1-4 I must go on boasting. Though there is nothing to be gained by it, I will go on to VISIONS and revelations of the Lord. I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. And I know that this man was caught up into paradise—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.
This is similar to the event in Matthew 17:9. It was a "vision", like a dream. This man Paul knew had a vision. Not sure what he means by "whether in the body or out of the body I do not know", but he states clearly that this was a vision, which is not an actual event.
1 Peter 3:18-20 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
The phrase "in which" refers to the Spirit.. He was "made alive in the Spirit, in which..." speaking of the same Spirit "He went and preached..." When did He preach? Long ago "while the ark was being prepared". I believe the key to understanding this passage is in 2 Peter 2:4-5:
For if God ... did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
Noah was a "preacher". Peter says that the ancient prophets spoke through and were influenced by the "spirit of Christ" (1 Peter 1:11). So, when Noah "preached", warning those people of the coming judgment of the deluge, he spoke by the Spirit of Christ.
Hope this helps.
Daywalker 8)
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