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Author Topic: Question from Denise (Revilonivek)  (Read 6531 times)

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believerchrist100

  • Guest
Re: Question from Denise (Revilonivek)
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2011, 05:46:40 PM »

Questions, questions, ha.

Just something to help me understand.

Was the Holy Spirit always with him since he was conceived by the Holy Spirit? Or was he filled by the Holy spirit in the form of a Dove at his baptism?

I have a question...

According to Romans 8:7-11

It is basically saying, as long as we are still carnal minded,  we don't have the spirit, and if we are no longer after the flesh, we have the spirit in us.

So basically, when you have the spirit in you, you are considered sinless? It says basically that the spirit can't dwell in a mind that is still carnal.

The temple of our bodies need to have the Spirit of God present in it to allow us to do His service. I Cor 3:16-23; II Cor 5:20

It would make sense that he can't sin because he has the Holy spirit in him. It's not in their nature to sin.

Was Jesus filled by the Holy Spirit at his baptism or was it always with him since he was conceived. I'm just trying to make sense of this. Jesus' mom is a human being, so Did Jesus inherit her carnal nature as every man does? Is it how he struugles? But the scriptures were clear that holy spirit cannot dwell in bodies that are still carnal minded?

How did Jesus overcome the world if he always had the Holy spirit, as holy spirit cannot sin nor live in a body that is still carnal minded? I'm trying to make sense of it.

Denise


The short answer is that it was always with him since he was concieved.  From Ray's "Is Jesus God" talk in 2009:

So why was He conceived by God?  If God wanted a man He could have chosen any man.  If He wanted him to be born of a virgin… fine, he could be born of a virgin. But why did He have to be conceived by God Himself? WHY?

[Attendee: To have the spirit of God with Him from birth.]  Well the Spirit of God was with a lot of people from birth.  But then again, if He had God’s Spirit in a ‘special’ way from birth and it’s a little boy… He wasn’t just a man.  Because no man goes through his teenage years without lusting after a pretty girl.  So He had to be more than just a man.  ‘Just a man’ lusts and that’s a sin. If He sinned, He can’t be the Savior of the world, He is not the perfect sacrifice. We need a perfect sacrifice that is flawless. There is no human being that is flawless. Jesus Christ said so Himself.

Matthew 19:16-17 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And He said unto him, Why callest thou Me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:

Now we’re going to make a second “good” one.  But out of just a man?  JUST a man?  If Jesus is just a man and that’s all it takes to save the world, God could have used any Jewish boy to be the Savior of the world. I don’t think any of you really believe that would have worked. There’s more to Jesus Christ than just the fact that He was born like any other human being.


I hope this helps Denise, basically if Jesus hadn't have the Holy Spirit with him from birth, he would have sinned and he couldn't have been the perfect sacrifice as Ray has said in what I italicized.

Hope this helps.

Patrick
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Samson

  • Guest
Re: Question from Denise (Revilonivek)
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2011, 12:52:21 AM »

Questions, questions, ha.

Just something to help me understand.

Was the Holy Spirit always with him since he was conceived by the Holy Spirit? Or was he filled by the Holy spirit in the form of a Dove at his baptism?

I have a question...

According to Romans 8:7-11

It is basically saying, as long as we are still carnal minded,  we don't have the spirit, and if we are no longer after the flesh, we have the spirit in us.

So basically, when you have the spirit in you, you are considered sinless? It says basically that the spirit can't dwell in a mind that is still carnal.

The temple of our bodies need to have the Spirit of God present in it to allow us to do His service. I Cor 3:16-23; II Cor 5:20

It would make sense that he can't sin because he has the Holy spirit in him. It's not in their nature to sin.

Was Jesus filled by the Holy Spirit at his baptism or was it always with him since he was conceived. I'm just trying to make sense of this. Jesus' mom is a human being, so Did Jesus inherit her carnal nature as every man does? Is it how he struugles? But the scriptures were clear that holy spirit cannot dwell in bodies that are still carnal minded?

How did Jesus overcome the world if he always had the Holy spirit, as holy spirit cannot sin nor live in a body that is still carnal minded? I'm trying to make sense of it.

Denise



 ;D ;D ;D ;D

I see clearly the games you are playing with us.

Enjoy toying with the suckers who think you are sincere in your questions.

Fool me once (or twice or thrice) shame on you.  Fool me again, shame on me.  Have fun!   ;D ;D ;D



John,

Earlier in the Day when reading this Thread & that other Thread from Off-Topic Discussions that got locked containing some of the same similar type questions, I had a gut feeling & thinking of what you mention in your above Post. Unfortunately, there are a few of Our Forum Members on Face Book perpetuating some kind of Apocrypha Gnostic writings, primarily the New Testament variety. Many years ago I read a book entitled: The Other Bible which contained all the writings that didn't make the bible Canon, both New Testament & The Old Testament. Actually, I owned this Publication, don't know what happened to it, I think that I chucked it. These individuals  claim that these Writings are superior to the present Bible Canon of 66 Books. They claim to have a "special knowledge(Gnosis)" that goes beyond the Scriptures, even if these understandings are in contradiction to the Scriptures.

All of what I wrote above has nothing to do with spurious passages, incorrect translating(ie-Aionios, Gehenna, Hell, Punishment, etc), spelling errors and other minor mistakes. As Ray explained in the Article, Which Bible Translation Is Best, the Scriptures for the most part are translated accurately with the major exception of Aion & it's derivatives: Aions & Aionios. All other things are minor mistakes in comparison. However, these individuals claim that the accepted Bible Canon contains mostly error and they are able through some special spiritual insight  to ascertain which verses are true and which ones are false. Read quote from Ray on Bible Authenticity. Sorry, if I offended anyone, I needed to get that off my Chest, I'm somewhat concerned about different ones getting stumbled & fooled by all of this.

Truth be known, millions who believe that the King James, for example, is a perfect inerrant translation have not a clue as to what is involved in translating from one language to another.  It may be possible to translate a few specific words almost perfectly from one language to another. But once we get into whole sentences, paragraphs, pages, and whole books (written by different people over a period of many centuries, in ancient languages), the task is almost daunting. When considering the enormity of the task, I believe most translators of most Versions have done a satisfactory job.

That is not to say there aren't problems with all Versions. But thank God there are many copies of the Greek, and some copies of the Hebrew manuscripts which makes it possible to come pretty close to the mind of God in most areas of the Scriptures.

But these two "additions" to God’s Word pale into little or no significance compared to the ONE GIANT INEXCUSABLE, "adding to" God’s word wherein the Translators turn Greek "aions" (periods of time as short as a few years) into English "eternities." This one gross error has turned into the most devastating botch of translating in the history of the world. Which consequently brought about the most damnable heresy in the history of the world—"Eternal Punishment."

Early translations of the Greek Scriptures into English did not use the words "everlasting," "evermore," "for ever and ever" or "eternal" in their versions. Maybe the very oldest English related tongue was the Ancient Gothic Version by Wulfila, which was a language spoken about 350 AD, closely akin to the Old German and Old English spoken at that time. This version translated from the Greek, as well as later Old English versions between 680 and 995 translated from the Latin, did not use any words that meant "everlasting" or "eternal."

Dear Brett:

Bibles are not translated by atheists. If they were, maybe they would be more accurate. But Bibles are mostly translated by Christians who ALREADY KNOW WHAT THEY BELIEVE. And, as they translate, THEY WILL PUT THEIR BELIEFS INTO THEIR TRANSLATION.  When they see the GREEK word "aionios," and they want to translate it into ENGLISH they will always use the LATIN word "eternus/eternal."  They can't help it--THEY ARE DECEIVED!

The Old Anglo Saxon Bibles from 800 to 1000 AD used the English word "ece" for the Greek "aionios," and it meant "eonian"--pertaining to the ages. Try to find the English word "ece" in even a 2600 page English Dictionary. It is gone gone gone.  Make no mistake about it: The King James Bible is a LATIN BIBLE! And virtually all modern English Bibles are virtually clones of all the errors found in the King James.

God be with you,

Ray

The solution to better understanding the Scriptures and the will of God is not solely a matter of a better translation or a perfect translation. The early church had NO translations—they had the original Greek signatures, and copies of these signatures in the Greek language, which was universally understood throughout much of the Roman Empire—even Egyptians spoke Greek. And yet, the first century was a time of MASS APOSTASY in the church. Here is Scriptural proof:

    "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them" (Acts 20:29-30).

    "HOLD FAST THE FORM OF SOUND WORDS, which you have heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. That good thing, which was committed unto you keep by the Holy Spirit which dwells in us. This you know, that ALL THEY WHICH ARE IN ASIA BE TURNED AWAY FROM ME…" (II Tim. 1:13-15).

So, even a perfect translation would not keep carnal men from turning from the Truth.

I have a number of translations. Not because they are all necessary to know the Truths of God, but because now I am a teacher and they are helpful in teaching.

Spend more time "praying and obeying" than looking for that perfect translation and you will make faster progress in your Spiritual walk with God.

Carry On, Samson.
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