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Spiritual death?

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Kat:

This is from Ray article 'Hades and the Second Death' that explains about the second death, which I think is the flipside of spiritual death.

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm -----------------------------------

THE SECOND DEATH

It's time for another one of those enigmatic Scriptures that sound very simple, but are difficult to harmonize with all Scriptures compare "spiritual with spiritual" and believe Jesus when He tells us that His "words ARE spirit" (John 6:63). Here is that enigmatic statement:

"And as it is appointed unto men [Gk: 'anthropose'--human, mankind] once to die, but after this the judgment"

This Scripture is all-encompassing, universal, and applies to every human who has ever lived. All humanity must die once, and after that death, they must be judged.
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Now get ready for a real revelation. There are two mysteries in Heb. 9:27 when applied to God's Elect:

what and when is the "ONCE to die?"

what and when is the "after this JUDGMENT?"

We will take up the Elect's Judgment part of this verse first.

We learned that Gehenna fire, and unquenchable fire, and eonian fire, and the furnace of fire, and being salted with fire, and the lake of fire, are all the same fire, and this fire is JUDGMENT. Now then, since the lake of fire is judgment, and the lake of fire "is" also the second death, if follows that the second death also "is" judgment. THE SECOND DEATH IS JUDGMENT, AND JUDGMENT IS THE SECOND DEATH.

Had God wanted to make things easy, He could have inspirited Heb. 9:27 to read like this: "And as it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, but after this the SECOND death."

For that is what the second death is, JUDGMENT. Likewise then, Judgment is the SECOND death. After the ONCE to die comes the SECOND to die. Or: After the FIRST death comes the SECOND death. Simple enough when God gives us eyes to see. But there is still an enigma about this verse that we will cover a little later.

GOD'S ELECT MUST DIE THE SECOND DEATH THROUGH JUDGMENT

As a young man I used to think, horrors of horrors, God is going to throw people into a lake of fire which will be their SECOND death! It all seemed so frightful and final. Little did I know that we are all destined for some form of this same lake of fire/second death/judgment. Yes, God's Elect must also die the SECOND death.

It's all in Rom. 8:13:

"For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.

Paul puts people into two options (based on God's foreknowledge):

OPTION ONE is for the wicked world: "For if you live after the flesh, you shall DIE..." Not only will they die, because "it is appointed to men once to die" (Heb. 9:27). But after they die, they will then come up in the resurrection to judgment, which is the "lake of fire/second death" (Rev. 20:13-14).

OPTION TWO is for God's Elect: "...but if you through the Spirit do mortify [kill, put to death] the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Rom. 8:13). Therefore, in the resurrection, "...you shall not be hurt of the second death" (Rev. 2:11). "...and he that has part in the first resurrection on such the second death has no power" (Rev. 20:6).

The second death is not a literal death of the physical body--neither for the Elect nor the Wicked. It is a death of the carnal mind, the heart of sin, the nature of sin. Our literal, physical flesh and blood does not die a second time. But all character flaws associated with sin must die: All believing Elect Saints of God must DIE TO THE FLESH OF THE CARNAL MIND. Death is the daily life of the Believer!
(check the link to see the many Scriptures that Ray uses to prove this point.)
v

But how do the Elect "die once but after this Judgment?" It rather seems that they would receive Judgment [in this life], and then after this [judgment] they would once die. No, the sequence is the same for the Elect as it is for the wicked: "And it is appointed unto men [including the Elect] once to die, but after this [after this necessary 'once to die' declaration, then follows...], Judgment" (Heb. 9:27). And what did we learn Judgment is? Why, THE SECOND DEATH. There can only be a "second" death if it is first preceded by another death.

Now for the second part of the Heb. 9:27 riddle: When and how do God's Elect die "ONCE" before their SECOND death Judgment? Some of you should already be ahead of me with all the hints I have given you, but for the rest who haven't figured it out yet, you will maybe feel a little embarrassed when you see the answer, so here it is:

"Know ye not [no, of course the majority of Christendom 'knows not,' and that is why the physical aspects of baptism is so important to them...] ...know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into DEATH" (Rom. 6:3-4).

There is the answer to how God's Elect must "once die" before their "Second death Judgment."

The carnal world dies when they breathe their last and go down into the grave. God's Elect die when they are "baptized into death.". After resurrection from the dead, the world will enter into Judgment. And what about us--God's Elect? When do we enter into Judgment? Same way, when we are resurrected from the dead through baptism.

"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection" (Rom. 6:4).

But we are not literally resurrected to immortality as Jesus was, when we are raised from the dead after being baptized into JESUS, are we? No, not literally, that is why Paul says we are to, "reckon you also yourselves to be dead."

"Likewise r-e-c-k-o-n you also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:11).

The Greek word for "reckon" means "to estimate, conclude, impute, reason, reckon, suppose, think." It is not necessary to "reckon" something that is literally a present reality. In the future we will literally be free from all sin and literally have immortality in resurrection, but for now we can just "reckon" it.

This death is not a literal, physical death, but it is a REAL death, and it is most important:

"Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him" (Rom. 6:08).

Notice also that in addition to being baptized into Christ's death, we are also "buried." True, this is figurative language, but it is true language. We truly are not only crucified with Christ, and die with Christ, but we are also buried with Him. THIS IS THE FIRST DEATH OF THE ELECT BEFORE THEIR SECOND DEATH IN JUDGMENT BY FIRE.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat

GaryK:

--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on August 03, 2011, 03:21:25 PM ---What's with all this gloom and doom stuff about "Spiritual Death".

Is this idea even in the Scriptures?  If so, what are the two or three scriptural witnesses that establishes this "truth".

God saves everybody!  Everybody.  No one gets left out.  That's what a loving God does.  The Scripture says that death will be the last thing destroyed.  But it will be destroyed.  So when you no longer have death, then all you have left is life.  Be happy.  Let the party begin.

--- End quote ---



John,

I’ve found 4 times on the BT site that Ray speaks on "spiritual death".

To answer your questions, it's enough........at least for me......... to trust it’s scripturally sound.

Peace to you.

gk


“
The Lake of Fire - Part X
THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN

So let’s drop the grudges we might have inadvertently harbored against our first parents thinking that they ruined our lives by their sins. As for me, I can’t wait to meet Adam and Eve, up close and personal—they are kin, you know? And don’t think for one second that they won’t be in the Family of God—I guarantee you the Scriptures say that they will, albeit by way of the purifying spiritual pond of spiritual fire, which is the second spiritual death.

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Thank and praise God that one day the most dreaded and painful things in the universe will be NO MORE:

"And God shall wipe away ALL TEARS from their eyes [no, there will be NO ONE in a fabled Christian hellhole of terror with tears running down their fire-scorched face for all eternity]; and there shall be NO MORE DEATH [not a first death, nor a second death, nor a spiritual death, nor any ‘death’ whatsoever, ‘the last enemy being ABOLISHED is DEATH,’ (I Cor. 15:26)], neither SORROW, nor CRYING, neither shall there be a ANY MORE PAIN: for the former things ARE PASSED AWAY" (Rev. 21:4)!


The Lake of Fire!
PART IV
UNDERSTANDING SPIRITUAL THINGS

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but AFTER this the JUDGMENT" (Heb. 9:27).
Notice that "judgment" comes after this death, and not before. We already learned that JUDGMENT is upon the house of God NOW! Each individual Christian in every generation is judged NOW, in THIS life, BEFORE he physically dies! And so the "death" that all men must partake of before judgment is SPIRITUAL DEATH. Notice:

"And I saw THE DEAD, small and great, STAND before God" (Rev. 20:12).
 
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May God finally grant you to SEE SOMETHING SPIRITUAL! Parables are NOT literal, that’s why they are called "parables" instead of "history." This parable pictures the carnal mind going the way of the flesh. What are the wages of living a riotous life in the alien land of lustful Babylon? Is it "life and joy in the holy spirit?" I speak as fool. Here is the wages of riotous and carnal living in the hog pens of Babylon: "For the wages of sin is DEATH..." (Rom. 6:23). SPIRITUAL DEATH! What must happen AFTER we spiritually DIE? "JUDGMENT!" The spiritual DEAD must be JUDGED. Does judging CORRECT the spiritually dead sinners? Yes it does. That is what the parable of the Prodigal Son is all about. God’s "ways and means" ALWAYS WORK!

John from Kentucky:
O.K.  I get it.  I see the analogy.  Thanks.

I am always careful when I do not see a specific statement in the Scriptures.  I never recalled seeing the words "Spiritual Death" in the Scriptures.

One reason I do not believe in the "Rapture" is because I never saw that word in the Scriptures.

One reason I do not believe God is a "Trinity" is because I never saw that word in the Scriptures.

One reason I do not believe man has an "Immortal Soul" is because I never saw those words in the Scriptures.

My mind runs in a simple path.  I normally prefer to see a scriptural concept actually named in the Scriptures.

mharrell08:
I agree that 'spiritual death' is taught from the Scriptures, but I don't think it applies to what anyone has been talking about. GK originally spoke of being 'spiritually dry' and everyone responded in agreement by describing how they don't feel inspired or uplifted all the time. That feeling is to keep us humble, but again, does not describe what spiritual death is.

DougE6:

FWIW I have found when I am feeling spiritually "dry" that when I give to others then often the dryness goes away. It might not be immediate, but it goes away.  One time during a very heavy rain storm a man asked Mark Twain "think it will stop?" Twain replied, "It always has"

I think these times of dryness are important. We can really examine ourselves to see what we are, when we are missing His Presence. Speaking for myself, when you are full of the spirit it is easier to obey and to feel spiritually OK, you need to be reminded of how small and weak you actually are and how much you do need Him.  If you have no thirst for Him, then you are not one of His. In human relationships we say "absence makes the heart grow fonder" Possibly this is true as well, in the spiritual relationship, we must not ever take God for granted.  Just as lovers eventually always reunite, so God and His chosen ones ALWAYS eventually reunite(I mean in a tangible feeling way, obviously God never actually ever leaves or forsakes us)

It may be a barren desert that the potentially spiritual mature all need to cross, to get to the land of promise.  Are we destined to be spiritually mature? Will you serve Him, will you pour out your heart to Him on others behalf, will you live righteously cause you love Him, will you forgive and love your enemies, even when you are dry? How easy it is to serve Him when you feel His presence. Because you are constantly rewarded.  But if He is NOT rewarding you, then I think serving actually shows more character than when you serve Him and He is making Himself totally known.  There is much we can learn from both being full of the spirit and feeling completely dry.  God knows I would not be able to stand it, even for the smallest moment, if He ever really left me. Even that thought terrifies me.  I need him for every breath and for my peace.

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