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Author Topic: Did you catch this????  (Read 7043 times)

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AK4

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Did you catch this????
« on: July 26, 2011, 10:06:21 PM »

Read this email to Ray and see if you notice something.

Quote
Dear Ray,

I enjoyed your article on the Trinity. Just a question, we know that the Father of Jesus Christ was not created.
From what you wrote and what I see in the scriptures, I feel that the son Jesus Christ had a beginning, which is not the case of Father.
I would like your opinion on it.
cordially
Élisée

Dear Elisee:  Both the Father and the Son are scarcely alluded to in
the Hebrew Scriptures.  Well then, WHO IS GOD of the Hebrew Scriptures?

You'll have to wait till I finish my research for what I believe is the Scriptural
answer to this enigma.  There is far more to this subject than most could
ever imagine, and yet, the answer has been there all the time, it's just that
we haven't believed the Scriptures. And giving the answer and proving the
answer are two different things, I assure you.  At least I now know the Name
of the Father.

God be with you,

Ray

Did you catch it?  Well heres what i caught....

Quote
and yet, the answer has been there all the time,
and  
Quote
At least I now know the Name
of the Father.

I dont know what to make of it yet but this is very interesting to me.  What are you guys thoughts on this?

ps I didnt get a chance to tell you guys what i believed was the most important question in my other thread but i believe its who/what is the most important of them all but really as someone else also stated in that thread, i believe they all are basically the same or just as the Word is all One so is all of the questions but i say  who is for those that believe in God, what is for those that are like athiests and agnostics and the rest.  btw this thread isnt about whats in this ps, its about what Ray put in that email.  Lets try to keep there please

Thanks and in Jesus

Anthony
« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 10:08:27 PM by AK4 »
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Did you catch this????
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2011, 10:32:42 PM »

Yes, it's been 'caught'.   :D

My thoughts are in another quote:

You'll have to wait till I finish my research for what I believe is the Scriptural answer to this enigma.

And this one:

...giving the answer and proving the answer are two different things...

Sorry, Anthony.  You'll have to wait for what I think about it too.   ;D  That ought to be easier than waiting for Ray, though.   :D :D  
« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 10:39:11 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

AK4

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Re: Did you catch this????
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2011, 10:48:18 PM »

Yes i caught those too.  Truthfully i was hoping that one of you who get to talk to Ray may "leak" out something  :o.  Ive got my own speculations also but i will wait to see what Ray has found.
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Kat

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Re: Did you catch this????
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2011, 10:37:31 AM »


Hi Anthony,

There has been so many questions about this subject and yes Ray has been dropping many hints, if you catch them  :)   Here is a resent email that I think goes right along with what you are saying.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13157.0.html ----------

I have said for many years that "Jesus IS GOD" (see pp 22-23
of my article "God is NOT a Trinity). But if Jesus IS God and His Father IS God
don't we then have TWO GODS? There is ONLY ONE GOD!
but there is so much more to this teaching that just solving the riddle of how the Father and Son can both be God if..... I say IF they are separate Beings with separate personalities.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Cypress

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Re: Did you catch this????
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2011, 11:59:54 AM »

So interesting!
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Elaine

geokuhns

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Re: Did you catch this????
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2011, 02:09:30 PM »

When Ray completes his research on this I hope he holds a bible study on it and has it video taped. God willing.  :)
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Did you catch this????
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2011, 04:05:19 PM »

Didn't ray say that God was like a title, or a last name and not a being. Such as ray used the example of him being a smith, and his son being a smith but that he is the father of his son yet they are both smiths?

That's how I've always looked at it, from the way put it out like that in one of his conferences I believe. I could be wrong.

This is all so very interested though and I can't wait for rays expounding on this subject!
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

AK4

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Re: Did you catch this????
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2011, 10:25:08 PM »


Hi Anthony,

There has been so many questions about this subject and yes Ray has been dropping many hints, if you catch them  :)   Here is a resent email that I think goes right along with what you are saying.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13157.0.html ----------

I have said for many years that "Jesus IS GOD" (see pp 22-23
of my article "God is NOT a Trinity). But if Jesus IS God and His Father IS God
don't we then have TWO GODS? There is ONLY ONE GOD!
but there is so much more to this teaching that just solving the riddle of how the Father and Son can both be God if..... I say IF they are separate Beings with separate personalities.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat


Hi Kat,

Yea i did catch that too and honestly on that it smells of the trinity to me but then again Ray must have been shown something from God, so i wait patiently [really impatiently :'(] to see what he has been shown.  There was another email where Ray dropped another clue, i am going to see if i can find it.

In Jesus

Anthony
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Kat

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Re: Did you catch this????
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2011, 11:46:13 PM »


Hi Anthony,

The truth is what it is and we can not let anything stand in our way of reaching whatever it may be. I know I have had to unlearn so much junk, but who knows maybe we will find out a truth is close to something we had thrown out. Maybe we will have to rethink how we look at something. We cannot let anything in this world stand in my way from coming to know who God is. Ray's study should be able to explain this in detail as he does that will give us tons of Scripture to help us understand it.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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JohnMichael

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Re: Did you catch this????
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2011, 12:30:13 PM »

Add to that this quote from Ray's July 27th letter (first thread in General Discussions):

Quote
What we can do is eliminate all of the popular theories of Who God is, including: [1]  a trinity of three different persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, [2] a dual God consisting of Father and Son, excluding the Holy Spirit, and [3] the Father only, excluding both the Holy Spirit and the Son.
 
All three of these theories are wrong and unscriptural, though there are millions who are convinced that God is either #1 or #3.  God is neither #1, #2, or #3, and I can prove it.  There is no problem with excluding the Holy Spirit from the divine Godhead.  The problem or enigma lies with the fact that the Scriptures clearly show that Jesus and His Father have Both existed from the beginning;  Both are credited with creating the heavens and earth; Both exhibit all of the qualities of Deity; and Both are called God   Yet the Scriptures state a dozen times that there is but ONE GOD!  That's the enigma that needs solving.  It's not that the proponents of these three theories are evil or stupid, but rather they do not harmonize all of the Scriptures.  There are major Scriptural problems with all of the popular Christian theories as to just Who constitutes the divine nature of God--the Godhead.
 
The theory which comes closest to blaspheming the Name of God, however, is the 3rd one which not only totally denies the deity of Jesus, but lowers Him to nothing better than a lucky Jewish boy who grew up to age 33 without sinning.  He was admittedly an outstanding citizen, an honor to His race, but nothing more.  All those who have been hoodwinked into believing such an incredible lie will be be so embarrassed when they learn the truth that they will want to crawl under a rock and hide!  I assure you all, that when the time came to die for the sins of the world, the Father did not say: "Son, YOU DO IT--I'll watch from up here." 

Ray is definitely dropping hints, and I'm very excited to see this article when he finishes it - God willing.

In Him,
John
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jong

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Re: Did you catch this????
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2011, 10:57:13 PM »

'and yet, the answer has been there all the time, it's just that
we haven't believed the Scriptures. And giving the answer and proving the
answer are two different things, I assure you.  At least I now know the Name
of the Father.
'

Jesus came to reveal the Father, why not His Father's name also? What name was not used in the OT which can be found in the NT?

My theory is that the name of God is ..... "Christ" which means "Saviour or Messiah" in Greek. I believe "Christ" could somewhat be like a "surname" e.g. the son of John Osgood may be named Peter Osgood etc....

Can't wait for Ray to finish his paper soon....
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River

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Re: Did you catch this????
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2011, 11:13:39 PM »

I'm not sure of the reason or importance of God's "name". I know there are names or titles given to God and I could see how that could tell you something of Him. But as of the importance of a name, I don't get it. I know JW push the name thing a lot and I tend to think you know God regardless of a "name." Does not the actions and fruits tell of something more than the name? Does anyone follow me on this? I know I once read a e-mail where Ray responded to someone getting all technical on the importance of Christ's name or something like that. So what is this name topic about and what is the importance of it? Thanks.
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markn902

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Re: Did you catch this????
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2011, 01:17:38 AM »

I have to agree with River this makes little difference in the grand scheme of things. Jesus, while he was here, prayed to His Father. And mentioned several times that he was doing "His Fathers will" as for the end of times "no one knows not the Angels not the Son only the Father"  That is good enough for me!

Sometimes I think the best of us can THINK way too much about things that are not that important. This is not some life changing spiritual revelation it is , at best, a theory that can never be proven

my two cents anyway
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JohnMichael

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Re: Did you catch this????
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2011, 03:38:38 AM »

For me, personally, this is a big deal because of the following Scripture:

Exo 20:3  Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Knowing exactly Who God is - be it Jesus alone or a combination of the Father and Jesus - is a massively important bit of information to know - for me. Having those Scriptures which seemingly contradict (Old Testament v. New Testament) explained is also "not giving place to the Devil" for his deceptions, falsehoods, etc. That is just my thinking on it as I apply it to myself.

Song of Sol 2:15  Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes.

Not applying that to anyone else but myself. Just putting in another perspective.

In Him,
John
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mmijares

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Re: Did you catch this????
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2011, 07:30:27 AM »

And even if I knew the name of the Father, I will continue to call Him "Father".  :)
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Rene

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Re: Did you catch this????
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2011, 12:06:52 PM »

Sometimes I think the best of us can THINK way too much about things that are not that important. This is not some life changing spiritual revelation it is , at best, a theory that can never be proven
my two cents anyway


I believe all truth is important, all truth is life changing, and all truth will be revealed.  Just my half a cent of an opinion. :D

John 8:31-32 - Jesus, therefore, said unto the Jews who believed in him, `If ye may remain in my word, truly my disciples ye are, and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.' (Young's Literal Translation)

René
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markn902

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Re: Did you catch this????
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2011, 02:41:51 PM »

All very good points!   :)
I always respect and value the input and opinions of every member of this forum. And you are right any searching for truth in the Bible has a value all it's own and should never be discouraged.

Mark
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Marky Mark

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Re: Did you catch this????
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2011, 03:43:34 PM »

Knowing that the words of God are spirit and not physical should give us a better understanding of what Gods name really is. Our own names in the flesh come from the parents that we come out of,our physical fathers and mothers.We then use our fleshy fathers surname because we are of the same line of fleshly heritage.
 
Spiritually speaking, when we are in Jesus and Jesus is in the Father and The Father and Jesus are in us that is how we become the true namesake [sons] of God by having His Spiritual name and character within.Our Spiritual name [written on a white stone] is the same as our Fathers name in heaven if we know His Spirit and do as He says through His Word.

Luk 6:46 Now why are you calling Me 'Lord,' and are not doing what I am saying?

Mat 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.  

When we do the will of the Father and keep His Word we then know His name[and the joy thereof] and what that name stands for by the knowledge of His Word. We become one in the Truth of His name.

Joh 17:6  I have given knowledge of your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world: yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your words.

Joh 17:8  Because I have given them the words which you gave to me; and they have taken them to heart, and have certain knowledge that I came from you, and they have faith that you sent me.

Joh 17:11  And now I will be no longer in the world, but they are in the world and I come to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name which you have given to me, so that they may be one even as we are one.


When we do not have Gods name in us,that is,His Spirit, this is the outcome.

Rom 2:24 For because of you the name of God is being blasphemed among the nations, according as it is written."

1Ti 6:1  Let all who are servants under the yoke give all honour to their masters, so that no evil may be said against the name of God and his teaching.

 Rev 16:9  And men were burned with great heat: and they said evil things against the name of the God who has authority over these punishments; and they were not turned from their evil ways to give him glory.



Here is what a good name is,knowing none is good but the Father.

Mat 19:17  And He said to him, Why do you call Me good? There is none good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

 Ecc 7:1  A good name is better than oil of great price, and the day of death than the day of birth.

Pro 22:1 A good name is to be chosen rather than great riches; Grace is better than silver and gold..


When we have the name of God written within us by overcoming the things of the flesh, that same name is the hidden manna [bread;Christ] of the Fathers Spirit.

Rev 2:17  The one who has an ear, hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies. To the one overcoming, I will give him to eat from the hidden manna. And I will give to him a white stone, and on the stone a new name having been written, which no one knows except the one receiving it.

Because by knowing who God is and what His name stands for we can have life eternal.

Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Rev 3:12  Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

 Rev 3:13  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.





Peace...Mark
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onelovedread

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Re: Did you catch this????
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2011, 03:50:51 PM »

I was just going through emails to Ray and this one came up:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,279.0/prev_next,prev.html#new

COMMENT (Ray's):  No, no contradictions. Moses didn't see God the Father, he saw and spoke with Jehovah Who IS JESUS CHRIST. By the way, that happened in Deuteronomy, however, not Genesis. And No, Jesus was not THE FATHER IN THE FLESH.  Jesus was JEHOVAH in the flesh.

Just wondering if there's any connection between this and what Ray's about to drop....

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bpenelli

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Re: Did you catch this????
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2011, 09:22:47 AM »

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12075.0.html

Dear Andy:

Thank you for your email and questions.  I'm afraid that I cannot go into much detail at present, although  I have spend
probably a couple of hundred hours on this subject this past year, and intend to write a paper on it in the future, but not
today. It will probbly be titled: "Is Jesus GOD?"

A couple of things: When I wrote that paper on the Trinity (about ten years ago), I unfortunately allowed myself to use terms
that trinitarians use (example, "person").  I have since spend many many hours in the Scriptures on the trinitarian use of
that word "person."  It is a most unforunate choice of words to describe God. Conclusion:  Jesus IS a person, whereas
His Father is NOT a person.  Don't have time to prove it now, but that's the truth.  And no, I do not teach that the Holy
Spirit OF God is a person.  I have no idea where you thought that I might be teaching that.

While it is true that Jesus did NOT say:  "I and My Father are One GOD," there nonetheless, needs further clarification
on that verse, which I did not cover in my paper. My new paper will be rather lengthy, I'm afraid, as the subject of the
divinity of Jesus is a huge subject.

Here is another point for you to ponder until my paper comes out (and no, it won't be in the six months, so don't be
looking for it any time soon).  Look at I Cor. 8:6 again.  Notice that it does not say, "But to us there is but one God, the Father."
(Period).  Nor does it say, "One Lord Jesus Christ." (Period).  There is more to consider.  Is this verse saying that "God the
Father" is the ONLY God," and that Jesus, therefore cannot also be "God?"  For sure Jesus can't be HIS OWN FATHER, but
can Jesus also be "the ONE God?"  Look at that first statement again, as it IS in the Scripture as I will re-emphasize the
words to make this one point:  "But to us there is but ONE God, the Father, OF WHOM ARE ALL THINGS."  There is only
One God, the Father,  OUT OF Whom ALL IS" (Concordant Literal New Testament and The Emphatic Diaglott).  Then

concerning Jesus we read:  "One Lord Jesus Christ, BY Whom are all things."
"Of" and "by" are two different words--"of" is applied to the Father, where as "by" is applied to the Son.  Actually the word
"by" is better translated "through," but that doesn't change the fact that they are different and are applied to different actions.

(See Rotherham's emphasized Bible, The Emphatic Diaglott, and The Concordant Literal New Testament for verification
of the word "through").  All creation is "OF" God the Father, but since Jesus was also created, not all creation is OF Jesus.
But the act of creation is attributed to Jesus (See I Collosians, etc.), hence it is "through" Jesus that all the things of creation
are brought into existence by or "through" Jesus Christ.
 
I'll have to end with that. As I said, this is a very large subject, but I will try to write on it in the future, God willing.

God be with you,

Ray
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Romans 7:24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
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