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Author Topic: A test  (Read 2247 times)

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Dave in Tenn

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A test
« on: July 27, 2011, 04:46:44 PM »

{Thought of this in one of my sleepless nights, and thought I'd pose a question.  It's really more of a 'test' than a sincere question.  I have AN answer.  It satisfies ME, but it might not be worth your time or attention.}

Ray's demonstrated over and over again that dealing with face-value 'contradictions' is a way to get to deeper truth.  Maybe dealing with this face-value contradiction will yeild good results.  Maybe it won't.  Maybe it will turn into a babble and remind us all one reason why there is a no-teaching rule.   :D    

Here it is.  I'll start by saying that the word translated WORLD is the same greek word, kosmos.


Joh 3:16 For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian."


1Jn 2:15 Be not loving the world, neither that which is in the world. If ever anyone is loving the world, the love of the Father is not in him,

The question is:  Are these Spiritual matches, or no?  And why/why not?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 05:13:06 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

lilitalienboi16

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Re: A test
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2011, 04:53:56 PM »

{Thought of this in one of my sleepless nights, and thought I'd pose a question.  It's really more of a 'test' than a sincere question.  I have AN answer.  It satisfies ME, but it might not be worth your time or attention.}

Ray's demonstrated over and over again that dealing with face-value 'contradictions' is a way to get to deeper truth.  Maybe dealing with this face-value contradiction will yeild good results.  Maybe it won't.  Maybe it will turn into a babble and remind us all one reason why there is a no-teaching rule.    

Here it is.  I'll start by saying that the word translated WORLD is the same greek word, kosmos.


Joh 3:16 For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian."


1Jn 2:15 Be not loving the world, neither that which is in the world. If ever anyone is loving the world, the love of the Father is not in him,

The question is:  Are these Spiritual matches, or no?  And why/why not?

I don't see a contradiction.

I see one saying that God loves the world (His creation, His children, His people.) where as the other one is saying don't love the world (its carnality, its evil ways, its wickedness, its foolishness etc..) because if you love these things then you don't have Gods love. (loving everything that is good, the truth, righteousness etc..)
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

dave

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Re: A test
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2011, 04:57:07 PM »

For God so loved, this is The Creator loving(deeply caring for) His creation.
We are to to not love (care for) the kosmos there is not growth in it for us.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: A test
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2011, 05:28:43 PM »

Correct me if I'm not understanding you, Alex.  You are saying that these are NOT spiritual matches because "the world" referred to is not really the same world.  Am I getting you?  Do you know of any other scripture where kosmos means different things?


Micah seems to be saying that these are not spiritual matches (corect me if I'm wrong).  I think you're saying the reason 'why not' is that God does things that we are not to do.  Are there other scriptural examples of this?


The question is:  Are these "Spiritual matches", or no?  And why/why not?

Focus on the question.  This is not so much about explaining the verses.  It's mostly a test about one of the Twelve Truths for Understanding Scripture.



 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

lilitalienboi16

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Re: A test
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2011, 05:39:23 PM »

I don't want to get into semantics and arguments of words. I'm not saying anything about whether they are spiritual matches or not. What I am saying however is they are NOT contradictions to one another. To me, they make perfect sense together and or apart. So you're not understanding me and not getting me. :)

You said; "Ray's demonstrated over and over again that dealing with face-value 'contradictions' is a way to get to deeper truth.  Maybe dealing with this face-value contradiction will yeild good results."

I'm dealing with the "face value 'contradiction'" and telling you the deeper truth I see, the good results.

God bless,

Alex

Edit: I apologize for not having dealt with your question in bold, I simply don't know how to answer that because I don't understand it.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 05:42:35 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

dave

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Re: A test
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2011, 05:47:35 PM »

I don't want to get into semantics and arguments of words. I'm not saying anything about whether they are spiritual matches or not. What I am saying however is they are NOT contradictions to one another. To me, they make perfect sense together and or apart. So you're not understanding me and not getting me. :)

You said; "Ray's demonstrated over and over again that dealing with face-value 'contradictions' is a way to get to deeper truth.  Maybe dealing with this face-value contradiction will yeild good results."

I'm dealing with the "face value 'contradiction'" and telling you the deeper truth I see, the good results.

God bless,

Alex

Edit: I apologize for not having dealt with your question in bold, I simply don't know how to answer that because I don't understand it.

Yeah, I agree with him! :D
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mharrell08

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Re: A test
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2011, 05:53:35 PM »

Here it is.  I'll start by saying that the word translated WORLD is the same greek word, kosmos.


Joh 3:16 For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian."


1Jn 2:15 Be not loving the world, neither that which is in the world. If ever anyone is loving the world, the love of the Father is not in him,

The question is:  Are these Spiritual matches, or no?  And why/why not?


No as a spiritual match is not about two scriptures having the same original Hebrew/Greek word, but rather, the same spiritual lesson or principle.

God loves the world for their benefit, in His Son. The world does not benefit when we love it, and worse, causes us to be entangled in it's sins that we are attempting to overcome with Christ in us.
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Myms

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Re: A test
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2011, 06:14:08 PM »

My understanding is as per Truth 5 (12 Truths to understanding the scriptures), everything in scripture has a higher spiritual meaning for our admonition. I believe the 'world' spoken about here refers to the 'world' (earth) within us - our mind / carnal nature - that is seperated from our heart / God's abode (heaven) by a thick inpenetrable veil. Only God can rent that veil and allow each one of us to stop living in a worldly way, earthly, carnal nature, and start to live in the Spirit, from our heart, with God on the throne of our lives. Just my thoughts.  :) We really do follow in Jesus' footsteps: death, veil rent, resurrection to a life hid in Him etc.....
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: A test
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2011, 07:07:37 PM »

That's OK, Alex.  That's why I asked the question.  The forum is for discussing the things we learn at B-T.com.  Learning how to 'discern' whether or not scriptures that we run across or are confronted with are 'spiritual matches' and what a 'spiritual match' is (or is not) is part of what is taught at B-T.  We may not be called to teach, but we can develop some skill in this to keep ourselves 'taught' and not be blown about by every wind of doctrine.

Maybe this a puny attempt.  Sue me.   ;D  But I just want to be a teeny-tiny bit pro-active.  How many threads have I actually started in three years?   ;D

I'll stop trying to interpret responses.  Fair enough. 

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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

River

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Re: A test
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2011, 02:51:59 AM »

This question makes me think about the study Ray did on love.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3719.0.html
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Joel

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Re: A test
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2011, 02:42:52 AM »

Hi Dave
I say they are not Spiritual matches, but do appear to contradict at face-value, but not as to the context of the individual verses.
How about these verses? Do they compare to what you are asking?

Genesis 3:20-Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Job 10:11-Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews.

Joel
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jong

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Re: A test
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2011, 11:15:38 AM »

Joh 3:16 For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian."

1Jn 2:15 Be not loving the world, neither that which is in the world. If ever anyone is loving the world, the love of the Father is not in him,

The question is:  Are these Spiritual matches, or no?  And why/why not?

Hi Dave,

There are always duality truths in scripture....absolute/relative, physical/spiritual, temporal/permanent, good/evil etc...

From the absolute, permanent viewpoint of God, the ‘world’ means the ‘Spiritual Man’ .
Father God loved His spiritual Man so much that He sent His son to die for Mankind. 

From the relative, temporal viewpoint of Man, the ‘world’ represents the ‘Physical Man’
Man is instructed not to love anything, especially the physical, that does not put God first in Man’s heart

My 2 cents :)
jong
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