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Author Topic: Bothering me...  (Read 7750 times)

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Ian

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Bothering me...
« on: August 24, 2011, 04:18:08 PM »

I have a question that has been bothering me. ... (there is a Squircle) why can't there be a square circle? Scientifically speaking?

I apologize for the stupid question. It kept me awake last night when I was on Google, mostly because of the posts relating to religion.

« Last Edit: August 24, 2011, 04:21:28 PM by Ian »
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Bothering me...
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2011, 08:51:03 PM »

I have a question that has been bothering me. ... (there is a Squircle) why can't there be a square circle? Scientifically speaking?

I apologize for the stupid question. It kept me awake last night when I was on Google, mostly because of the posts relating to religion.



The answer is simple.  Words of a language have a defined meaning.  A square has a specific meaning.  A circle has a specific meaning.  The meanings of the two words are different.  Combining them violates the rules of the language and results in a nonsensical result.

There are many examples of violating the definition of words creating a nonsensical result.  One example is: Can God create a stone He cannot lift?
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Kat

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Re: Bothering me...
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2011, 09:43:06 PM »


Quote
There are many examples of violating the definition of words creating a nonsensical result. 


That would be an oxymoron John, like the word freewill  ;D

Kat
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Bothering me...
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2011, 10:47:40 PM »


Quote
There are many examples of violating the definition of words creating a nonsensical result. 


That would be an oxymoron John, like the word freewill  ;D

Kat

 ;D  That's a good one Kat.  A perfect example of what an oxymoron is.

Most times I just feel like a moron, but putting oxy in front of it makes me feel better.   ;D ;D
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Ian

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Re: Bothering me...
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2011, 01:17:46 AM »

The answer is simple.  Words of a language have a defined meaning.  A square has a specific meaning.  A circle has a specific meaning.  The meanings of the two words are different.  Combining them violates the rules of the language and results in a nonsensical result.

There are many examples of violating the definition of words creating a nonsensical result.  One example is: Can God create a stone He cannot lift?

One is guilty if he answers "yes," one is guilty if he answers "no."

Thank you for your post. May I go into detail?
« Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 01:29:55 AM by Ian »
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DougE6

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Re: Bothering me...
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2011, 02:40:15 AM »

 
A square circle? Well first of all, as far as I know, one cannot construct a square and circle to have the same exact area. Since pi is a transcendental number, and has no algebraic roots with rational number coefficients.  For example a square of area 16 has sides of 4; but can one construct a circle with area 16? Only approximately, never exactly. Conversely, can you construct a square with area pi 4 squared? Nope. So if they can never EVEN have the same area, how can we even hope to have a square circle?  :)

I like your question though. At the tiniest size level, the quantum level,  science is full of paradoxes. And as you approach the speed of light, the largest level, relativity is also full of paradoxes. So at the extremes our natural world is full of paradoxes. As much as we like to think our world is as concrete as our instincts tell us it is, it isn't.

And your right, squircles exist.

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cjwood

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Re: Bothering me...
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2011, 03:27:44 AM »

i just googled 'squircle', and learned all kind of things.  i had never heard that term before. 

claudia

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Ian

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Re: Bothering me...
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2011, 05:25:34 AM »


A square circle? Well first of all, as far as I know, one cannot construct a square and circle to have the same exact area. Since pi is a transcendental number, and has no algebraic roots with rational number coefficients.  For example a square of area 16 has sides of 4; but can one construct a circle with area 16? Only approximately, never exactly. Conversely, can you construct a square with area pi 4 squared? Nope. So if they can never EVEN have the same area, how can we even hope to have a square circle?  :)

I like your question though. At the tiniest size level, the quantum level,  science is full of paradoxes. And as you approach the speed of light, the largest level, relativity is also full of paradoxes. So at the extremes our natural world is full of paradoxes. As much as we like to think our world is as concrete as our instincts tell us it is, it isn't.

And your right, squircles exist.



Thank you, all! Could you give me some examples of those paradoxes, Doug? It would help with my thought patterns. ^^
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Duane

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Re: Bothering me...
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2011, 03:41:58 AM »

Area 51-- also has many transcendental mysteries!
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noeleena

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Re: Bothering me...
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2011, 07:39:37 AM »

Hi. Doug .

As a ?  why not,   can not a circle  & a Sq be the same,   they can get a peace of string put it around the sq , then take it off & make a circle  of the string   whats the difference ....none  same size.
 think out side the box.

how do you think we build building's  every thing starts with string.

Here's one .

a building is say 200 ft long 100 ft high a beam from left to right. surported at both ends,
as you look at it ,  is it straight say your 100 ft away from the front. no it'll look like it has a sag in the middle so we build it up at say 2 ft so you on the ground think it's straight, even if its not.   called a up ward curve .

A peace of string can do more than mere ft & in's or maths.

oh well what do i know back to swinging off my bridge, with my  string rope .  gota have a laugh,,,,,,

...noeleena...
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longhorn

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Re: Bothering me...
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2011, 10:50:11 AM »

My cat just squeezed out an audible fart.  Yall figure out the square-circle thing, I got bigger issues to deal with.

Longhorn
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Duane

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Re: Bothering me...
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2011, 01:56:48 PM »

Longhorn...can your turtle do that?

I just marvel at the (beautiful) minds that some FORUM members possess.  I read their explanation of things and it really makes me feel humbled, like in:  God, when You were passing out brains--couldn't you have just slipped me one?

Longhorn..I, too, will let the "brain-iacs" continue with thei mathmatical circle/square quandries and see if our parakeets can do some one-legged tricks while swinging!
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arion

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Re: Bothering me...
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2011, 10:07:58 PM »

My cat just squeezed out an audible fart.  Yall figure out the square-circle thing, I got bigger issues to deal with.

Longhorn


....like cleaning the floor around the litter box after that one.   ;D
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Ian

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Re: Bothering me...
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2011, 01:21:05 AM »

Thank you all for your answers. ^^ Er, does anyone else have more information, scientifically speaking?

Also, thank you for making me laugh, Longhorn. XD
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 01:59:13 AM by Ian »
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Bothering me...
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2011, 02:05:48 AM »

A square is a square.  It has it's own definition.  A Circle is a circle and it has it's own definition.  Anything that's contrary to those definitions makes it something other than a square or a circle.

A squircle is a cute word.  It's also a geometric pattern.  It has it's own definition.  But it is not a square, and it is not a circle.  It is what it is, but it ain't something else.

   
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Ian

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Re: Bothering me...
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2011, 04:58:28 AM »

A square is a square.  It has it's own definition.  A Circle is a circle and it has it's own definition.  Anything that's contrary to those definitions makes it something other than a square or a circle.

A squircle is a cute word.  It's also a geometric pattern.  It has it's own definition.  But it is not a square, and it is not a circle.  It is what it is, but it ain't something else.

   

Scientifically speaking? (I'm not an atheist or agnostic, but I feel that science is a 'gift' from God.)
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Bothering me...
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2011, 06:32:51 AM »

Isn't geometry a science?
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

JohnMichael

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Re: Bothering me...
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2011, 03:05:17 PM »

Taken from a google search:

A squircle is a mathematical shape with properties between those of a square and those of a circle. It is a special case of superellipse with the equation of (x-a)^4 + (y-b)^4 = r^4 where (a,b) is the central point and r is the radius.

I don't see how a square could be a circle since the mathematical definitions mutually exclude one another.

A square is a special rectangle (and parallelogram) that is comprised of four sides, all at 90 degree angles, and the opposing sides have to be parallel.

A circle is a round plane figure whose boundary (the circumference) consists of points equidistant from a fixed center; therefore, it has no parallel sides.

Waxing mathematically philosophical, are we? ;D ;D ;D (joking)
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Ian

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Re: Bothering me...
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2011, 04:21:12 PM »

Taken from a google search:

A squircle is a mathematical shape with properties between those of a square and those of a circle. It is a special case of superellipse with the equation of (x-a)^4 + (y-b)^4 = r^4 where (a,b) is the central point and r is the radius.

I don't see how a square could be a circle since the mathematical definitions mutually exclude one another.

A square is a special rectangle (and parallelogram) that is comprised of four sides, all at 90 degree angles, and the opposing sides have to be parallel.

A circle is a round plane figure whose boundary (the circumference) consists of points equidistant from a fixed center; therefore, it has no parallel sides.

Waxing mathematically philosophical, are we? ;D ;D ;D (joking)

Thank you, sir!
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Ian

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Re: Bothering me...
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2011, 03:11:49 AM »

I apologize for double posting...

But, I had another question(s):

Do the laws of physics have an effect on how shapes are formed, configured?
Or does any law?
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