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Author Topic: Contridiction  (Read 5640 times)

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« on: July 12, 2006, 12:05:16 PM »


Thanks for your site. I feel like it's a hand reaching out to me whilst I almost drown in the confusion of modern day Christianity.

I just preached a sermon at church (I am not a minister, just a priest (!) - no, your bog-standard unique Christian who gets to speak sometimes) on God working out his purpose in our lives. I originally wrote my sermon partly using some of your material on "the myth of free will" but the minister didn't agree with me so I sneaked some of it through the semantic back door.

Ray, the material you wrote on free will really did cause me to struggle. Am I really to understand that God created us so that we would fail so that he could send Jesus? I'm not saying I am not willing to accept it because I want to know the truth - it's just so hard to believe that God knew all the terrible terrible things we would all do to each other and let it go on anyway. I'd better stop now as I get scared everytime I think about questioning Him - I think of Job!

I was also wondering - you said we are not saved until the end - but what about the scripture in 1st Peter that says "you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls" (NIV version) Is that a bad translation because it appears to contradict some of what you said? It does say 'receiving in the present tense. What do you think?

Thanks again Ray


Dear Doug:

I appreciate your email, but I wish for ONCE someone would just tell the truth, when they try to prove my writings wrong.  Why did you not rather state:  "Ray, I have found a verse (it would also be helpful if you would cite the Scriptural verse rather than to just tell me it is in "I Peter") in I Peter 1:9, that I believe CONTRADICTS the dozens and dozens of Scriptures that you have used to prove that we do not receive salvation in this lifetime."  Why do you say: "it appears to contradict some of what you said?"  Where have "I" ever said anything that was not from the SCRIPTURES?

Anyway, so you believe that I Pet. 1:9 contradicts the dozens of SCRFIPTURES that I have used to prove that we do not receive salvation in this lifetime?

Okay, let's read the NIV on this matter:

"Praise be to God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ in His great mercy He as given us new birth into a living HOPE [See Rom. 8:24-25 for a definition of 'hope.' If we already possess salvation in THIS LIFE, there is no need to 'hope' for it] throught the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--KEPT IN HEAVEN FOR YOU [given to us while we are alive in this lifetime?  NO! 'kept in heaven for you.'] who through faith are shielded by God's power UNTIL [do you know what the word 'until' means?] the coming of the salvation [oh! it is yet 'coming?' It is not YET here in this lifetime, is it?] that is ready to be revealed in the LAST TIME [in our time? NO, in the 'last time." In OUR lifetime?  NO, in the 'last time'].  In this you greatly rejoice, though NOW FOR A LITTLE WHILE you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of traials [which we will NOT suffer when we are 'SAVED'].  These have come so that your faith[faith is the assurance of things HOPED FOR, not the POSESSION OF THINGS ALREADY ACQUIRED, Heb. 11:1] of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire--may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor WHEN JESUS CHRIST IS REVEALED  [in THIS lifetime?  NO, 'when Jesus Christ is revealed'--in His Presence, I John 3:1-3].  Though you have not seen Him, you love Him; nd evn thoug you do not see Him NOW, you believe in Him and are filled an inexpressilbe and glorious joy, for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls [in the FUTURE, at His Presence, etc., etc., etc.]."

Hope this helps your understanding.

God be with you,

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