What is Scripture?

[River]

Hi all,

  If I say or declare a truth or write down a truth is not that scripture in a sense? What I am asking is why do we lean on letters or writings from the past which are written by man and tell us they are inspired by God? From the length of time the scriptures spread we must clearly see that if they are inspired then it was done over thousands of years and with many different people. So what is the difference if someone of the present makes known these same things? These old writings say Thy Word is Truth. They also say Jesus is the Truth. So again if someone knows Jesus according to the Spirit and declares Truth is not that inspired scripture? Why do I ask? Well, how many times have we or many others made declarations of love for Jesus and yet we wrongly use scripture to support false Truth! We don't even have a correct understanding and yet we use "scripture" to support it. Yes, I know this doesn't mean the scripture is incorrect but without what we call the opening of eyes isn't it like just any other writings? I hope someone understands what I am saying. I just kinda wonder when I hear the words "inspired scriptures" when someone talks and think well what good is it if you can't see the "inspired scriptures"? Anyone following me?

[mharrell08]

Hi all,

  If I say or declare a truth or write down a truth is not that scripture in a sense?

No, I wouldn't think so. The scriptures are intended to be 'instructions in righteousness' [2 Tim 3:17]. Seeing that no one is righteous but God, how would anyone else teach another in righteousness? How would any person even know what righteousness is?

What I am asking is why do we lean on letters or writings from the past which are written by man and tell us they are inspired by God? From the length of time the scriptures spread we must clearly see that if they are inspired then it was done over thousands of years and with many different people.

What does the length of time have to do with whether or not the scriptures were inspired by God? Why does it matter that different people were inspired in creating the Holy Scriptures?

So what is the difference if someone of the present makes known these same things?

If they are 'making known these same things', isn't that simply teaching from the scriptures?

These old writings say Thy Word is Truth. They also say Jesus is the Truth. So again if someone knows Jesus according to the Spirit and declares Truth is not that inspired scripture?

It may be inspired teaching/prophesying, but why would it need to be scripture? Especially if it is only expounding a point already written within the scriptures.

Why do I ask? Well, how many times have we or many others made declarations of love for Jesus and yet we wrongly use scripture to support false Truth! We don't even have a correct understanding and yet we use "scripture" to support it.

This is simply a learning experience for us all, as it was the apostles. Peter was told to 'rise and eat' in the vision of four-footed unclean animals and quoted scripture from the Book of Moses:

Lev 11:27  ...whatever goes on its paws, among all kinds of animals that go on all fours, those are unclean to you. Whoever touches any such carcass shall be unclean until evening

Acts 10:14  "Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean."

But he was taught by God to not call common what God has cleansed:

Acts 10:15  And a voice spoke to him again the second time, "What God has cleansed you must not call common."

Acts 10:28  Then he [Peter] said to them, "You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Yes, I know this doesn't mean the scripture is incorrect but without what we call the opening of eyes isn't it like just any other writings?

Perhaps it simply means it is hidden from their understanding?

Luke 18:34  they [the apostles] understood none of these things; this saying was hidden from them, and they did not know the things which were spoken.

Matt 11:25  At that time Jesus answered and said, "I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes.

I hope someone understands what I am saying. I just kinda wonder when I hear the words "inspired scriptures" when someone talks and think well what good is it if you can't see the "inspired scriptures"? Anyone following me?

I hope I followed your intent and answered your questions. If not, please let the members know and I'm sure another can help as well.


Thanks,

Marques

[JohnMichael]

Hi River,

This may not be an answer to your question per se, but it is an answer if you ponder it.

Scriptures are not just words on a dusty page written centuries ago that have no meaning or are not "modern" enough.

Christ stated that His words are Spirit and Life (John 6:63). Therefore, though Heaven and Earth pass away, His words will never pass away (Mat 24:35).

What does that mean? Christ is the Word made flesh (John 1:14), and Christ is, was, and will be (Rev 1:8).

In Him,
John

[Kat]

Hi River,

The '07 Mobile Conference 'How We got The Bible' explains this in great detail. Here are a few excerpts.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.0.html ---------

Canonization - a book or writing has to be recognized, approved, or officially used or read or marked or stamped by the highest servants of God, as genuine and inspired of God.
v
Our Lord is, of course the most credible witness as to what should be Scripture and what should be in your Bible that there is.
v
Luke 24:44  And He said to them, These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in THE LAW OF MOSES and in THE PROPHETS and in THE PSALMS about Me.

There it is. That is called the Tripartite Division of the Old Testament, the Law - the Prophets - the Psalms. The Psalms are also known as 'the Writings.' So Christ is telling us there is 3 divisions of Scripture that prophesy and talk about Him; the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms.
v
All you had to do was go to the Temple or go to any Synagogue and you could see what the Scripture are. But these were not the Synagogues of the Gentiles.
v
So everybody knew what these were, except maybe the Gentiles. Luke is a Gentile, writing to the Gentiles and that's 'us' people. Now we know whatever constitutes the Laws, the Prophets and the Writings to the ancient Jews, that's the Old Testament. So by the time of Christ, the Old Testament had to be completed
v
So obviously the Apostles had all the Scriptures. They had the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the writings, they had it all. It (Old Testament) was in the synagogues and the Temple until 70 AD, but they also had them.  

General epistles James, Peter, John and Jude should come before Paul's epistles. They were first to teach, first in authority (Acts 15) and first in teaching the milk of God's Word, followed by Paul's strong meat of God's Word.
v
Paul knew that he was writing Scripture, he says...

Rom 16:25 Now to Him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which hath been kept secret since the world began,
v. 26 but NOW is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known unto all nations for the obedience of faith:

Was that manifest back during Isaiah's prophecy? No. Back during David's Psalms? No. "Now" he says.

II Cor. 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me,

Paul makes no bones about it, he says, I was given a lot of revelations from God. Well these revelations weren't given to him just for his pride and vanity. So he knew all this stuff and this was going to be written down as Scripture

Eph 3:3-7  how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, of which I was made a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.

So in other ages, in the Old Testament this stuff was not known. They did not know what Paul was telling them. This is new revelation from God, "as it has now been revealed by the Spirit." So there are apostles and prophets at the time of Paul. He was an Apostle and anybody who speaks, sings or writes inspired writing from God is a prophet.
v
Because there was apostasy coming in the church. There is crime and corruption entering in; false prophets, antichrists, strong delusions. It says men shall be lovers of themselves, disobedient, proud, vain, booster, lovers of pleasure (II Tim. 3) and all of these things are coming into the church. So they need to be sure that everybody knows what is the Truth.  Now they are going to set aside the books for the final canonization, as what are the Scriptures.
v
SEVEN CANONIZATION PERIODS

1.  Moses
2.  David and Solomon
3.  Isaiah and Hezekiah
4.  Jeremiah and Josiah
5.  Ezra and Nehemiah
6.  Peter
7.  John

So the canonization fell to Peter and John.

We read of John, He instructs him in Revelation 1:1 "What you see, write in a book..." So somehow that book (Revelation) had to join up with all the other books, as did I, II and III John and the Gospel of John. So John wrote 5 books; I John, II John, III John, The Gospel of John and Revelation.  

I said there was 22 books written by 66 AD and by the end of John's ministry, he added 5 more.  

22 +5 = 27  + 22 OT books, all total 49.  

7 x 7 = 49 = total completion.  

That's how many books there are suppose to be, that's how many we have. So we've got the complete Bible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Audios
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_1.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_2.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_3.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_4.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_5.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_6.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_7A.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_7B.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_8.mp3

mercy, peace3 and love
Kat

[River]

Hi Marques,

  Your last line about wanting to understand me was very kind. Even among people who know each other well many times things can be misunderstood.

You wrote.."Seeing that no one is righteous but God, how would anyone else teach another in righteousness? How would any person even know what righteousness is?"

That was my point behind many people saying the same things over time and in different books of scripture. Before something is written down it is first in the mind of the person correct? No one may be righteous but obviously they are used to bring the message about. Did we not have many teaching these things, hence the New Testament? They knew what was righteousness was because they wrote the scriptures which of course are letters etc. This all goes back to my point. So when the time when not all the books were written that we have today, would we say then (at that time) that there could be no more scripture? I'm not looking for more scriptures or wanting more, I am just more or less saying that like JohnMichael said in his post that this scripture has always been and I don't think it can be contained in books. To me it isn't books or words it is something imprinted on the heart by what we call God's Spirit. I mean a person doesn't turn around and start loving enemies just because a book says you should. If the "scripture" isn't written on the heart what good is it? Any man can carry around a load of holy books and still be as rotten as a bad apple.

I surely appreciate all your help and the posts so far. I do ponder what you all write often, thanks for allowing me the time to share and to comprehend such matters.

[Dave in Tenn]

Much of your answer is in the questions, River.

Here's a couple of verses to ponder.

Jesus to the Scribes and Pharisees:  Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures, for in them you are supposing you have life eonian, and those are they which are testifying concerning Me...

Is He saying they think they have, but don't?

2Ti 3:16-17 All scripture is inspired by God, and is beneficial for teaching, for exposure, for correction, for discipline in righteousness, that the man of God may be equipped, fitted out for every good act."

"That THE MAN OF GOD may be equipped..." reading all the words.  Read a bit later in John 5 and you'll see that Jesus did not refer to the Scribes and Pharisees as "Men of God".   

Many are called, few are chosen.  That's the way God planned it, that's the way God wants it to be...for now.

Anyway, just trying to put things together, hoping they fit.