Matthew 23

[mavis92379]

Hi All,

In Matthew 23:8,9,10 Jesus commands not to call any man your rabbi, father or teacher. I noticed in 1 Cor 12:27-29 that God gave some to be teachers. Im aware that because God placed teachers on earth it does not justify calling them that. 

I have always interpreted Mat 23:9 to mean there is no other fatherhood on earth. Jesus uses the same statement in reference to teachers but we see in 1 Cor 12 that there are teachers here with us on earth. Im a bit confused now with what the statement call no man on your earth your father means. Even though its still quite clear we shouldnt refer to anyone as father, does this leave the interpretation of Matt 23:9 open that there are "fathers" on the earth other than the one Father in heaven ?

Thanks,

Matt

[Kat]

Hi Matt,

I thought the way that Thayer described this was very helpful.

Thayer Definition:
1) generator or male ancestor
 1a) either the nearest ancestor: father of the corporeal nature, natural fathers, both parents
 1b) a more remote ancestor, the founder of a family or tribe, progenitor of a people, forefather:
      so Abraham is called, Jacob and David
   1b1) fathers, i.e. ancestors, forefathers, founders of a nation
 1c) one advanced in years, a senior
2) metaphorically
 2a) the originator and transmitter of anything
    2a1) the authors of a family or society of persons animated by the same spirit as himself
    2a2) one who has infused his own spirit into others, who actuates and governs their minds
 2b) one who stands in a father's place and looks after another in a paternal way
 2c) a title of honour
    2c1) teachers, as those to whom pupils trace back the knowledge and training they have received
    2c2) the members of the Sanhedrin, whose prerogative it was by virtue of the wisdom
           and experience in which they excelled, to take charge of the interests of others
3) God is called the Father
 3a) of the stars, the heavenly luminaries, because he is their creator, upholder, ruler
 3b) of all rational and intelligent beings, whether angels or men, because he is their creator,
      preserver, guardian and protector
    3b1) of spiritual beings and of all men
 3c) of Christians, as those who through Christ have been exalted to a specially close
      and intimate relationship with God, and who no longer dread him as a stern judge
      of sinners, but revere him as their reconciled and loving Father
 3d) the Father of Jesus Christ, as one whom God has united to himself in the closest bond of
       love and intimacy, made acquainted with his purposes, appointed to explain and carry out
       among men the plan of salvation, and made to share also in his own divine nature
    3d1) by Jesus Christ himself
    3d2) by the apostles


I think when we speak of something it is always what the intent that we use the word that God looks at. If we are simply referring to a biological father, God knows that. The metaphorically for 'father' that Thayer used, "the authors of a family or society of persons animated by the same spirit as himself... one who has infused his own spirit into others, who actuates and governs their minds." This helps to understand why a true believer would reserve that spiritual title only when speaking of our heavenly Father, only He deserves that kind of title from us.

Now here you will see what I believe this Scripture is referring to. The Pope of the Roman Catholic Church is addressed as Holy Father, a priest is usually referred to as Father or even as Reverend Father. Religious priests (members of religious orders) are addressed "Father" in all countries (Père, Pater, Padre etc.). In the Greek-Catholic Church, all clergy are called "Father" including deacons, who are titled "Father Deacon," "Deacon Father," or simply "Father". (From Wikipedia)

To me the way the churches are using the title 'father' is giving a man the respect and title only the heavenly Father deserves. It's just wrong and no justification for it.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[mavis92379]

Thank you Kat.

I agree that there is no justification in referring to a catholic priest as father. Call no man on earth your teacher but we see that God has given some to be teachers on earth. Now when Christs says call no man on earth your father is it possible that those that are spiritual and guides to others are fathers ? I see Peter refers to Marcus in 1Peter5:13 as his son. Did Marcus look to Peter as fulfilling some fatherly role to him spiritually ? Why are these terms used if the practice is forbidden in Matt 23 :9 ?

Thanks,

Matt

[Kat]

Well I can see where someone respects another person for helping them spiritually and make look up to them and seek additional help. But we always need to recognize the source of all knowledge is God the Father, "One is your Teacher" (verse 08). Christ knows that it is very easy for us to look at a person that teaches us with adoration and awe, which can lead to their being puffed up. Jesus had just spoken of this in the verses before.

Mat 23:5  They do all their deeds to be seen by men; for they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long,
v. 6  and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues,
v. 7  and salutations in the market places, and being called rabbi by men.

Since people are so easily puffed up we should avoid having titles of rank that seems to aid in one thinking too highly of themself.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[aktikt]

Here's a puzzler.  Given the above discussion how does this verse harmonize?

1 Cor 4:15
For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

aktikt

[JohnMichael]

I wonder if this is referring to "looking to a man/woman" for your salvation needs (Rabbi, Teacher, Father, Master, etc). Meaning - depending on someone else for your spiritual growth (trying to ride into the kingdom on someone else's coattails, if you will) - which is a position held solely by our Lord. There is also an element of worship in giving such honor and praise to people with special titles. All worship, honor, and praise belongs to God alone.

For example, consider this passage from Revelation:

(MKJV)

Rev 22:6  And he said to me, These sayings are faithful and true. And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show to His servants the things which must shortly be done.
Rev 22:7  Behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he who keeps the Words of the prophecy of this Book.
Rev 22:8  And I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel showing me these things.
Rev 22:9  Then he said to me, Behold! See, do not do it! For I am your fellow-servant, and of your brothers the prophets, and of those who keep the Words of this Book. Do worship to God.

In Him,
John

[Kat]

Hi aktikt,

Well that verse in 1 Cor 4:15 when Paul said "you have you not many fathers," I believe was implied towards those that were using great care to see to the brethrens spiritual needs. Paul said he was doing that very thing.

1Th 2:11  as you know how we exhorted, and comforted, and charged every one of you, as a father does his own children,

Paul also called the brethren his "little children" and he labored for them, even liking it to giving birth to them to establish this truth in them.

Gal 4:19  My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you,

And John also used the term "little children" many times when referring to the brethren. But at the same time I doubt that the brethren used the term 'father' when speaking to/of these men that were serving them, even though they were serving and loving them like a father. So the brethren did have a few, "not many" who were caring for them as a father.

But it's a whole other thing to take on the title 'father' because of a rank you hold in a church and certainly do not deserve it, certainly not in God's eyes. I think it is for that very reason that "Jesus commands not to call any man your father."

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[aktikt]

Kat,

That sounds reasonable.  Good answer.  

I think those times where we run across a seeming contradiction are good learning opportunities.  

aktikt

[Joel]

Jesus went on to say in Matthew 23
11-But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12-And whosever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

If we take what Paul said in his writings as being from his own mind, then there is reason for concern, but we can rest assured that is not the case.

Paul wrote these words in 1st Corinthians 11
1-Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Paul also wrote these words in 1st Thessalonians 5
12-And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;
13-And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.

He knew who the Father is; Ephesians 4:6
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


Joel

[onelovedread]

Perhaps before that question is discussed, we should re-examine Ray's 12 Truths to Understanding the Word and in particular, TRUTH NUMBER 6

[A] "...that in the mouth of TWO OR THREE WITNESSES every word may be established" (Matt. 18:16).

"...In the mouth of TWO OR THREE WITNESSES shall every word be established" (II Cor. 13:1).

[C] "And I will give power unto my TWO WITNESSES..." (Rev. 11:3).

This particular law of Scripture is constantly violated. We are to have at least a second witness to establish a Scriptural truth or doctrine.
and TRUTH NUMBER 7

[A] "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches; COMPARING [or 'matching'] SPIRITUAL THINGS WITH SPIRITUAL" (I Cor. 2:13).

"And to this AGREE the words of the prophets; as it is written..." (Acts 15:15).

[C] "These [Bereans]... searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were SO [Gk: 'in this way,' 'like'] (Acts 17:11).

[D] "AS You have sent Me into the world, EVEN SO have I sent them into the world" (John 17:18, and many, many other such comparisons).

The purpose for comparing spiritual with spiritual is to find a spiritual match. There is a spiritual match for every symbol in the book of Revelation. This is a powerful truth that will open the whole Bible to us.

In the previous truth we learned the need for two witnesses. In this truth we will learn the need for those two witnesses to be a "spiritual match." Let's now "spiritually match" two witnesses and see the marvelous eye-opening result.

Both of these tie in with Truth NUMBER 5:  Everything from Genesis to Revelation pertains to a higher SPIRITUAL meaning than the physical examples, parables, metaphors, allegories, stories and symbols in which they are written. "Let us make man in Our Image" (Gen. 1:26) are words of SPIRIT: "...Surely I come quickly..." (Rev. 22:20) are words of SPIRIT. God does not look like a six-foot man or a five-foot woman. Jesus comes quickly to us, not to the world.