> General Discussions
Church requirement?
G. Driggs:
Here's a nice bit from Ray.
http://www.bible-truths.com/souls.htm
LIGHT AND SALT DON’T ARGUE OR MAKE NOISE
"Ye are the salt of the earth… Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid… Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matt. 5:1,14,16).
Salt does not make any noise, and light does not argue Scriptures. Neither salt nor light makes any sound whatsoever. Maybe there is a lesson in there.
Too many people learn a few truths of God and think that they are ready to take on the world. They usually start by trying to embarrass their Pastor with their new-gained knowledge. Usually they fall flat on their face on the very first try. It’s all about motivation. If your motivation is carnal, God will not back you. Yes, I know, all of you are saying: "But my motivation is to show them God’s truths." Yes, sure, I understand, but THEY DON’T WANT TO HEAR GOD’S TRUTHS, and you already know this, so what is your point? Leave them alone and let them taste your salt and see your light and admire your good works, and perchance they will even praise God for your new-found humility,
You will never argue anyone into accepting the truths of God’s Word. As salesmen are often taught: "You might win the argument, but loose the sale," so don’t argue. And this: "He who is persuaded against his will; is of the same opinion still."
I receive a lot of emails from people who beg me to come to their rescue because they are about to have a second session with their pastor or friend, but have failed miserably on the first go-round. Now they want me to give them the ammunition they need to do a slam-dunk on their second attempt to embarrass their pastor or friend. Give it up—that attitude is wrong. Such a carnal exhibition of prideful flesh is akin to someone looking for a street fight merely because he has just acquired a black belt in karate.
HOW TO DEMONSTRATE YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH
I personally know a man who has his little wife working two jobs to support their family so that he can study the Scriptures and enter into doctrinal debates with other Christians at the local Caf� as a perpetual hobby. Notice the admonition of the Apostle Peter:
"Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; having your conversation [Gk: ‘conduct’] honest [Gk: ‘honorable’] among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may BY YOUR GOOD WORKS, [Not your clever Bible arguments], which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation" (I Pet. 2:11-12).
Your good works and righteous character will pay dividends to others eventually—if not in this life, then in the Judgment.
Kat:
Here is a few places where Ray speaks on what the Scriptures say concerning the church.
http://bible-truths.com/lake11.html ---------------------------------------
"I know your works and where you DWELL, even where SATAN’S SEAT [throne] is: and you hold fast My name, and have not denied My faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr [Gk: ‘witness’], who was slain among you, WHERE SATAN DWELLS" (Rev. 2:13).
v
Antipas is God’s faithful witness. And Who does the Scripture tell us is the "faithful witness" of God? Answer:
"And from JESUS CHRIST, Who IS THE FAITHFUL WITNESS…" (Rev. 1:5).
And Antipas, Jesus Christ, was martyred IN JERUSALEM. Satan’s throne and dwelling place is in JERUSALEM!
v
"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified" (Rev. 11:08).
That city wherein our Lord was crucified was JERUSALEM!
v
"But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine and which have not known the DEPTHS of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden" (Rev. 2:24).
v
And although the Church has the milk of the word, they also have "the DEPTHS of Satan" in their "minds and hearts." It is but the remainder, the few, "the rest in Thyratira," and therefore, the rest in the seven churches, "which HAVE NOT this doctrine, and which HAVE NOT known [in their ‘minds and hearts’] THE DEPTHS OF SATAN."
Virtually all Christian Churches worldwide have within their doctrines, the depths of Satan. And that is why the cry goes out from God Almighty:
"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying ‘COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4).
Come out of… who? Who is the "her?" Her is a WOMAN. A woman in Scripture is a symbol for a CHURCH.
Who is to "come out?" Answer: "MY people." Where are they? In her, in the CHURCH. What Church? The MOTHER CHURCH. Who is the MOTHER CHURCH?
The church that appears to be so good, with good doctrines, and good teachings and spiritual appearing good works and righteousness, which in reality are abominations:
"And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will show unto you the judgment of the GREAT WHORE that sits upon many waters [many nations of people]: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication [intimate religious/political/economic relationships], and the inhabitants of the earth have been made [spiritually] DRUNK with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of ABOMINATIONS and FILTHINESS of her FORNICATION: And upon her forehead [where WE should have the name of God our Father, Rev. 14:1, but this mother church has instead…] …a name written,
MYSTERY, BABYLON, THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Rev. 17:1-5).
v
Now then, is "Moses" still taught in the churches of God, today? Yes, of course he is. The Law of Moses is virtually worshiped by many in the Church.
v
Today’s Church teaches Moses and Christ. Nearly every person on earth that has ever heard of Christ has heard of Him through the Church. Can a deceived Church, "Teach Christ?" Well, they can, and they do. Is this a good thing? Yes, it is, even if their motives are not always perfect. Notice what Paul said regarding this:
"Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defense of the gospel. What then? Notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence or in truth, CHRIST IS PREACHED; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice" (Phil. 1:15-18).
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1304.0.html -------------
If there were churches scattered through BABYLON THE GREAT WHORE, then there would be no need for God to admonish those whom He is choosing, to "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE" (Rev. 18:4). Are we to just come out of her spiritually, but remain good social friends with them on a weekly basis?
Church is not now and never was, a physical building to congregate in to worship God. Could all the hundreds of thousands of Israelites congregate inside the tiny little tabernacle in the wilderness? Could ALL JUDEA congregate in the tiny Temple in Jeruslem every sabbath? The synagogues became corrupted and the churches today are corrupted. So where do you want to go? If you want fellowship why not foin a social club and keep the false religion out of your fellowship.
Jesus taught us that we are to worship God in spirit and in truth, not in this mountain or in Jerusalem, or in a building, or another other "place" that is corrupted. I can't tell people what to do. If "christian fellowship" means more to them than "godly worship," then I guess they just have to keep looking.
Being a follower of Jesus Christ was never designed to be a "feel good religion" as many christian churches promise if you join their particular tents on living a worldly life for Jesus. I trully never miss, "CHURCH"! I "go to church" every time I open my Bible."
http://bible-truths.com/email9.htm#yoked ----------------------------------
All those who live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. It is happening to YOU. What do you tell them? Actually, you are not obligated to tell them ANYTHING for not meeting with them.
However, here is a Scripture that tells us what to do when we are entangled with those who do not believe the Truths of God:
"Be ye not unequally yoked together with UNBELIEVERS [those who do not believe the Truths of God]: for what fellowship has righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion has light with darkness? And what concord has Christ with Belial? or what part has he that believes with an infidel. And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? [or 'idols of the heart'--Ezek. 14:4, which are FALSE doctrines and FALSE teachings] for you are the temple of the living God; as God has said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM, AND BE YOU SEPARATE, says the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and you shall be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty" (II Cor. 5:14-18).
There is your Scriptural reason for not assembling with them.
God be with you,
Ray
TruthChaser:
Thank you for all the information. I dont want to use this to engage in useless debate but I want to be able to back up why I dont attend a church establishment when asked. I dont want to come off as confused. Just need something scriptural to stand on. Thnx again.
River:
River, I think that they do love and believe in Christ, however, 1 Corinthians 3:2 puts it well by saying:
"with milk I fed you, and not with meat, for ye were not yet able, but not even yet are ye now able,"
So yes I believe they have the right idea but they do not understand the deep things of God. They will not and can not unless it is shown to them. It isn't that they don't believe but their belief is immature. They drink milk but are unable to eat the real meat of the gospel.
Hi Foxx,
Thanks for your response. The above quote is the only thing I take issue with. Milk doctrines are not hell teachings and all the other unscriptural things. An inmature belief is different than a false belief. If you were feed with milk by the apostles or Jesus would you really claim they would teach and preach to you such things as the doctrine of hell? I don't think so. The churches teach another Jesus, they may believe in God and give him the name Jesus but it in no way means it is the Jesus of the scriptures. The post that Kat put up that Ray taught on proves this well.
onelovedread:
I do not want to sound disagreeable, but this question should not have been posted. Had a most basic study of Ray's teachings been done, it would be immediately seen that this subject was continuously addressed. This is a key element of Ray's teachings and he touches on church in his emails and in almost all of his papers. I am surprised that Marques let this one pass without comment:)
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